Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of other fictional United States Presidents


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus.  MBisanz  talk 04:11, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

List of other fictional United States Presidents

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Almost random list of trivia. We don't need every instance where a piece of fiction mentions a president of the United States. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:37, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:N and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. I don't think this article meets notability and I think it's an indiscriminate list of information. This is very trivial information. --Hmich176 (talk) 11:21, 13 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep The nomination doesn't address the most obvious aspect of this list:- that it's part of a group of sublists which together form List of fictional Presidents of the United States. It makes no sense to consider this in isolation as the group seem to have been split just for reasons of size.  As the nomination doesn't address this, this indicates that the page has not been read or understood.  Note further that the topic of fictional presidents is notable per WP:LISTN as entire books have been written about this such as The Presidents We Imagine: Two Centuries of White House Fictions on the Page, on the Stage, Onscreen, and Online or Fictional Presidential Films: A Comprehensive Filmography of Portrayals from 1930 To 2011. Warden (talk) 12:34, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It does make sense in the greater construct that there would be an other other fictional president article, but that seems extremely awkward. Since there are books on this topic, I'm willing to strike the portion of my comments on notability. However, when looking through the books which you linked, they talk about fictional presidents within the construct of the era, time and culutre in which they were created. I still believe that WP:NOT applies, because I don't think a list of unnamed fictional United States presidents is encyclopedic. --Hmich176 (talk) 11:57, 14 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Rename/split/reorganize Assuming that there is a point to the whole list structure, the problem is that this article is misnamed and contains two unrelated sublists. The first list should be moved to List of unnamed fictional United States presidents, because that's what it is. The second list contains people who aren't fictional, but their presidency is. I can see two outcomes for dealing with it: either split it off into List of fictional United States presidencies of historical figures, or redistribute it among the other four alphabetical lists. At any rate it needs to be brutally relieved of the plot dumps that pad out most entries. Mangoe (talk) 13:17, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep for the moment, and reorganize per Mangoe. Can't see any justification for keeping it in its current state or deleting the content. Fictional prulesidents of the US is a notable topic, per CW we should have this. Claritas § 23:51, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:55, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:55, 14 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Split or Delete - Article is too long, and should be split or deleted.--Jax 0677 (talk) 03:16, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep and Split. The article is 4 years old and has had 169 authors.  Obviously many people care about the topic.  It is long.  Currently it is the 4th largest on WP: Special:LongPages.  The Unnamed Presidents could move to their own article.--LUOF (talk) 04:34, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Age of an article is not a valid reason to keep or delete an article. List of DirecTV channels was recently deleted, and that article had been around for at least 5 years. -- hmich 176 10:39, 18 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete Merge As User:Colonel Warden argued, a List of fictional Presidents of the United States is notable. However, this portion of the list is not supported by such an argument because it encroaches on WP:INDISCRIMINATE and WP:FANCRUFT. If any entry is notable, then it should be merged into List of fictional Presidents of the United States. Ideally, I think all the non-notable entries should be cut and a single list at List of fictional Presidents of the United States would probably suffice, but the nominator has only nominated the single article. --Odie5533 (talk) 14:08, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge the parts about real people with fictional presidencies into their article, and categorize. Remove the part about unnamed fictional presidents as trivial fancruft, WP:IINFO.  Sandstein   20:04, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Remove the unnamed presidents section and rename the remainder to Real people with fictional presidencies per Sandstein. Unless sources are found which explicitly discuss unnamed fictional presidencies.  Spinning  Spark  20:18, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 01:50, 22 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Undecided. Delete. This article is a big mess. First of all, an article title ought to make sense on its own. This one's doesn't. Referring to "other" fictional presidents only makes sense when there has been one group of fictional presidents referred to before. Second, I question whether we need "biographical" data (actually just elements of plot descriptions) about all these "unnamed presidents" from various works of fiction. Third, in the section "Real people with a fictional presidency", the very first person listed is John Adams. Since Adams was a real United States president, he doesn't belong in a list of fictional United States presidents. Alternate history treatments of his presidency belong in some other kind of article, if anywhere. In fact, the majority of the real-life presidents appear in this list of fictional United States presidents. There could be some value to a list like this, but not under this title, and not with all of the content here. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:27, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I have changed from "undecided" to "delete" in order to signify to the closing admin that I am neither in favor of keeping an article under this title nor in favor of keeping much of the content that appears in this list. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 17:36, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep but split into 2 parts and come up with good titles. Obviously it is an interesting topic to lots of people. BigJim707 (talk) 09:28, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete there isn't a real concept here as far as I can tell. It's not a concept that can be established with sources that can WP:verify notability. That being said, I see some people here who I respect and are arguing that if you took out some of the total garbage, you'd find the kernel of a good topic. So I'd also support a rename and reorganize/cleanup, at least as an intermediate step before we evaluate whether that new topic should be deleted or improved. Shooterwalker (talk) 20:47, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep There are already articles that have much of the information split into them, to handle the large size. List of fictional Presidents of the United States Check to see if any information is different, and then just eliminate it from this list if its in one of the others already.  Then rename what's left to List of unnamed fictional Presidents of the United States.   D r e a m Focus  03:52, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. How is a list of unnamed fictional Presidents of the United States encyclopedic? They're not even named characters. -- hmich 176 11:48, 23 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The unnamed presidents at the top is pure listcruft. That can and should be removed by normal editing, regardless of the result of this AfD. What's left is a textwall full of arcane trivia from dozens of different unrelated topics. Leaning delete unless the broader topic of United States Presidents being portrayed in fiction is shown to be notable.  Them From  Space  05:42, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.