Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people born in the Kabaa

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was merge and redirect to Kabaa. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 05:01, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

List of people born in the Kabaa
Mostly procedural, filling a redlink on the Vfd page. That said, any article where the external links vastly outweigh the internal content gives me pause. Looking at the contrib's talk page has deep concerns about edit wars and POV editing. I have previously watched this editor because most of their new articles lack context to know what they are about (EG Salma Umm-ul-Khair), and are usually word-for-word from another website. I have only not marked them as copyvio in case they are based on some religous text(s), even tho' that seems unlikely as they usually only appear on one or two other websites. Bottom line, I don't really feel qualified to vote as I don't want to take the time to figure out what in blazes is going on here. Niteowlneils 01:16, 14 July 2005 (UTC)


 * If kept, the page needs to be moved to List of people born in the Kaaba. I don't feel that this is an amazingly encyclopedic list topic, but then again, it's more encyclopedic than a list of songs about drugs other than heroin, or Pokemons, so abstain. - Mustafaa 01:21, 14 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Merge into Kaaba. As Mustafaa alluded to, we have much less encylopedic lists already extant on Wikipedia. The article is apparently well-researched, as well. My only concern is the name; "List of people born in the Kabaa" is a bit of an anti-climax once you see the article and realize that there's only two names on the whole list and its unlikely to ever grow. I'd say merge into the existing Kaaba article. Fernando Rizo 02:09, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge to Kabaa per Rizo. It never makes sense to have a list with two items.--Pharos 03:23, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge to Kabaa. To answer one of the points in the discussion below, if there is controversy over who exactly was or was not born there, that can be discussed too; the article doesn't have to claim everything as a fact, and shouldn't if something is disputed.  (Actually just another reason to have it not be a list.)  Dcarrano 05:04, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Kabaa. JamesBurns 09:41, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge to Kabaa per Fernando Rizo -Harmil 15:34, 14 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Kabaa, give a smal section to report the conradictions. --Striver 16:10, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Discussion
A Shi'a editor named Striver, upset at being told that he couldn't fill the Ali ibn Abu Talib article with Muslim oral traditions (hadith) proving that Ali was the only person in history born inside the Kaaba, created this article, List of people born in the Kaaba, and linked all the hadith to it.

After some controversy at the Ali article, Mustafaa added a sentence saying that Shi'a Muslims claim Ali was born in the Kaaba. This was not enough for Striver, who has created this inane and un-encyclopedic article. I think the sentence in the Ali article is enough. Zora 22:09, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Forget it Zora, Mustafaa said in my talk page that i could creat that!

--Striver 22:26, 13 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I don't agree with Mustafaa? Perhaps if there's any discussion of this issue, it should be in an article with a different name and a different format? The article's title is POV, in that it assumes the matter to be proved. The article's format is bad, in that it's your usual list of hadith, without any argument, explanation, background, anything. And I don't think it's OK for you to just wipe the VFD template off the page in question and assume that this settles the matter. Zora 22:50, 13 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Then make a vote for making those changes, not a vote for deleting the article!


 * --Striver 23:10, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Guys, the actual VfD is on Votes for deletion/List of people born in the Kaaba for some reason. I've already explained my position there. - Mustafaa 02:27, 14 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Merged. Previous history at Votes for deletion/List of people born in the Kaaba. - Mustafaa 02:29, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Question If we merge it to the Kabaa article will this links follow:


 * anwary-islam.com: Hakim was the only person born in the Kabaa


 * witness-pioneer.org: Ali was born in the Kabaa
 * witness-pioneer.org: Ali was uniquely born in the Kabaa
 * witness-pioneer.org: Hakim was the only person born in the Kabaa


 * was Ali or Hakim born in the Kabba?


 * umr.edu: only Hakim was born in the Kabaa


 * islamonline.com/: only Hakim was born in the Kabaa


 * Sahi Muslim says Hakim


 * yazehra.com
 * imamalinet.net
 * islamroots
 * ezsoftech.com
 * aljaafaria.com


 * slamicate.com says Ali
 * Wikipedia Says Ali
 * ismaili.net says Ali

--Striver 03:11, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It is not Wikipedia's mission to provide unchanging article URLs to which external websites can link without needing maintainance. In particular, WP's purpose is not to serve as an authoritative reference for a topic which has no verifiability except millennium-old oral traditions.  Merge into Kaaba, explaining the (largely-theological-BS) dispute between factions.  If this point were a major reason that Sunni and Shi'a Muslims are killing each other in Iraq and elsewhere, then I would support a stand-alone article on the topic, but not a "list" of two people with dubious (and mutually contradictory!) verifiability.  Barno 15:12, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.