Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people on stamps of Djibouti


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. No one, except the nominator, argues for deletion of the article. (non-admin closure) Armbrust, B.Ed. Let's talk about my edits? 10:07, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

List of people on stamps of Djibouti

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None of the people in this list article are actually from Djibouti, therefore the article has no value in telling us anything about Djibouti. Philafrenzy (talk) 15:06, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 18:34, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 18:34, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep: That is not the point of these lists. If we go down this path then we should probably have very careful look at all of the articles in this category Category:Lists of people on stamps for similar lists and perhaps even deleting every entries for people who don't actually come from the country that issued stamps of them. Otherwise the lists should be all renamed List of people from Foo on stamps of Foo. If the current structure stays then all such articles should stay. ww2censor (talk) 20:17, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment This list has no sourcing given. I'm frankly dubious of the whole 'List of People on Stamps' series of articles - many are unsourced, and the notability is shaky in many cases. Nwlaw63 (talk) 20:37, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I have been meaning to improve these articles for some time but have been struggling with a failing computer so have barely made a start as yet. Daveosaurus (talk) 22:25, 6 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment How does this list help the encyclopaedia? It tells us absolutely nothing about Djibouti and as far as I can see there is not a single person actually from Djibouti on this list. I could understand if the list included Presidents of the country or similar but it is just a list of links to famous people well covered in other articles. Philafrenzy (talk) 20:59, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * There was at least one person from Djibouti on the list (a former President). The article helps the encylopaedia by being a list of people that the government of Djibouti (and, previously, the French colonial administration) have considered sufficiently notable that they are depicted in official Government publications i.e. its postage stamps. Daveosaurus (talk) 22:25, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Further to which, now I have had a go at the article I count at least three people with direct relevance to Djibouti (Governor Bernard, Léonce Lagarde and Hassan Gouled Aptidon), plus others with at least peripheral relevance (e.g. Félix Éboué). The difficulty now is that the stamps of Djibouti are poorly documented (my 2007 catalogue only lists them up to the late 20th century) and with so many modern African stamps available turning out to be fakes I am most reluctant to go any further without verification such as is provided by a reliable catalogue. Daveosaurus (talk) 02:40, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Yes it needs improvement and I have made a start on referencing the article. Daveosaurus (talk) 22:25, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment I do not object to the article if you can fill it with people relevant to Djibouti rather than Nelson and Princess Diana, but it is disingenuous to say that the government of Djibouti thought these people were important. Most of them only figure on the stamps because collectors in France and elsewhere will buy them as topical issues, and I would doubt that the Djibouti government had very much to do with the selection of subjects. Did Lord Nelson ever visit Djibouti? Philafrenzy (talk) 22:43, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment A lot of work has been done on this article recently by Daveosaurus but none of it is addressing the fundamental notability of the subject, which I think is what we should be discussing. Philafrenzy (talk) 10:55, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You are the one failing to address the fundamental notability of the subject by harping on about the utterly irrelevant issue of whether the people on the stamps have any connection to Djibouti. Phil Bridger (talk) 09:12, 21 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Bryce  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 02:31, 15 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep. I think it's instances like this where a rigid adherence to WP:N doesn't accomplish anything but knocking arbitrary gaps in Wikipedia coverage.  So long as the information on this list is verifiable, why isn't it enough that 1) there is widespread interest and coverage of stamps of the world, including their subject matter; 2) Djibouti, though tiny and perhaps little known to much of the world, is a real, independent nation that has issued official stamps.  So do we complete coverage in this area by making sure all countries for which such verifiable information exists are covered in a way completely consistent with policy, or do we delete this just to say the WP:N-god has been sated?  What would be accomplished, how would the encyclopedia be made better?  Whether or not these people are "relevant to Dijibouti" seems to me completely irrelevant and not a demand based on any policy or guideline I can surmise, so I don't see much point in discussing that further.  postdlf (talk) 04:08, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. Well referenced article very similar to others of the type. Just for comparison, I compared List of people on stamps of Ireland and found links to Pope John Paul II, Jawaharlal Nehru, Rowland Hill, and Mahatma Gandhi.  None are Irish, but their inclusion is in itself notable.--Dmol (talk) 11:15, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. My objection to the article is not based on a narrow reading of any rules, rather it is based on a high-level principle that all content should have encyclopaedic value, which this list does not. The effort that has gone into referencing this list is a waste as all it means is that we have a well referenced list of trivia. I would be very surprised if any of these stamps had ever been anywhere near Djibouti. They are produced by foreign agencies for sale direct to collectors to satisfy demand for pictures of famous people on stamps. The stamps are invariably too large and too expensive for use in the named country and you usually find that there is a much smaller and cheaper range for actual day to day use. Do not be misled by the name of a sovereign state on the stamps, these stamps and many like them tell you nothing about the country they supposedly originate from apart from how poor it is and how much they need the cash from the sale of stamps that do not bear any relation to their own culture. I wish the same amount of effort had gone into expanding the main article on Postage stamps and postal history of Djibouti. Expanding these lists of trivia is misguided when the actual main article for the country is so lacking. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:27, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * In answer to your comments: "I would be very surprised if any of these stamps had ever been anywhere near Djibouti" If they had not been they wouldn't have been granted catalogue listing but instead been relegated to an Appendix as per the catalogue publisher's policies. "The stamps are invariably too large and too expensive for use in the named country and you usually find that there is a much smaller and cheaper range for actual day to day use". The Djiboutian franc is pegged at about 177 to the USD. The last page of stamps in the catalogue gives stamps of face values from 20 Fdj to 500 Fdj with the average being about 100 Fdj - quite compatible with the likely price of posting letters overseas - Djibouti has for example a sizeable French expat community see its article. Otherwise this is at its heart the difference between "commemorative" and "definitive" stamps and applies to most nations of the world, including the United States. "these stamps and many like them tell you nothing about the country they supposedly originate from" Actually if you read through a comprehensive catalogue of Djibouti stamps you will notice that the majority of them are directly relevant to the country, showing topics such as local landscapes, wildlife and activities. "Expanding these lists of trivia is misguided when the actual main article for the country is so lacking" WP:SOFIXIT. I don't have access to literature about the Djibouti postal service but I do have access to catalogues of its stamps. Daveosaurus (talk) 22:51, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.