Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people on the postage stamps of the Republic of China


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. While I closed other debates on lists of people on postage stamp articles as "delete" (see e.g., Articles for deletion/List of people on the postage stamps of China and Articles for deletion/List of people on the postage stamps of Sweden), this list has a few sources and consensus is generally on the side of keeping the article.  Malinaccier ( talk ) 21:34, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

List of people on the postage stamps of the Republic of China

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Still completely unsourced and un-maintained. Still no proof that this is a notable topic per WP:SALAT. Prod contested with a WP:SOFIXIT rationale, but again, there's no proof that this can be fixed. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 15:01, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and China. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 15:01, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * As always, ping of and  Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 15:02, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. This is something for another kind of project, outside of Wikipedia. BD2412  T 21:49, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Keep I added these sources to the article (the first two sources show that Notability is met):  On the pages that I reviewed, the book lists these people who appear on commemorative stamps: 林故主席紀念郵票孫總理國葬紀念郵票 (Sun Yat-sen)蔣主席就職紀念郵票 (Chiang Kai-shek)吳稚暉誕生百年紀念郵票 (Wu Zhihui)羅斯福夫人紀念郵票 (Eleanor Roosevelt)</li></ol>There are other pages containing other people that I have not reviewed.</li> <li> The magazine notes: "瞭解我中華郵政改名的來龍去脈,便知為何連續 3 次總統就職紀念郵票小圖 4 全張卻有 3 種樣的道理. 再如為李登輝總統發行的第九任總統就職紀念郵票小全張(圖 4 ) ,也有幾項特別之處. 首先,李登輝從民國 77 年 1 月 13 日,在蔣經國總統逝世後,以副總統身分 ..." From Google Translate: "Knowing the ins and outs of China Post's name change, you can understand why there are three reasons for the three consecutive Presidential Inauguration Commemorative Stamps. Another example is the commemorative stamp sheet (Figure 4) issued for President Lee Teng-hui of the ninth presidential inauguration, which also has several special features. First of all, Lee Teng-hui from the Republic of China on January 13, 1977, after the death of President Chiang Ching-kuo, as vice president..." </li> <li> The book notes: "98年4月13日適逢蔣故總統經國先生百歲冥誕,為表感念與緬懷,中華郵政股份有限公司特以經國先生之肖像及走訪民間親民愛民之圖照為主題,於本日發行「蔣故總統經國先生百年誕辰紀念郵票」1組4枚及小全張1張," From Google Translate: "April 13, 1998 coincides with the centenary birthday of the late President Chiang Kai-shek, as a token of gratitude and memory, Chunghwa Post Co., Ltd. With the theme of Mr. Jingguo's portrait and the pictures of visiting the people, close to the people and loving the people, the company will issue "Mr. Chiang Kai-shek's Centennial Birth Commemorative Stamps" today in a set of 4 pieces and a souvenir sheet, ..." </li> <li> The book notes about George L. Mackay: "on the 100th anniversary of his death from throat cancer, Taiwan's post office issued a stamp commemorating Mackay's life." </li> <li> The book note: "Another, less boisterous event took place on June 1 when the Directorate General of Posts of the Republic of China issued a special set of stamps to commemorate the centennial of Mackay's death. The commemorative set had been introduced" </li> <li> The article notes: "Pairing Lincoln and Sun Yat-sen as "great democratic prophets, protecting human rights and upholding justice," the Taiwan government in 1959 issued a stamp of the two standing shoulder-to-shoulder." </li> <li> The book notes: "Taiwan produced a stamp with the dual images of Sun Yat-sen and Lincoln "of the people, by the people, for the people" written in English under Lincoln and the Chinese equivalent under Sun Yat-sen (see fig. 5.5)." </li> </ol>Cunard (talk) 05:13, 31 May 2022 (UTC)</li></ul>


 * Comment: Pinging, who removed the proposed deletion. Cunard (talk) 05:13, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Need further evidence that 's improvements show the article should be kept and further improved. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b> <sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  10:26, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Taiwan-related deletion discussions. Cunard (talk) 05:14, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete the incidental mention of one stamp in a book is not enough to show that a list on a topic is notable. The sources above may or may not be worth adding to Postage stamps and postage history of Taiwan or whatever exactly we name the article, but they are not enough to justify a comprehensive list that includes everything. We cannot build lists alone on reliable source entries that show indicidual cases belong. To justify a list we need reliable sources that treat the subject as a whole, not just reliable sources for indivdual entries.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:59, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep; all available evidence tell us that these people were depicted on stamps because they are important to the history and society of their country. No one gets notability from beeing on a stamp; but stamps indicate the role of a person in their society. Bw --Orland (talk) 21:51, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. it a reasonable encyclopedic thing do look for. It and similar lists are not random lists, but list of the 50 to 300 (usually) the country wants to commenorates especialy and make visible at least nationally and often internationally. Allp philately sources keep track of them., so there's no problem about sourcing.  This is not a list of "everything" The total total number takign all the lists together might be about 20 000-100,000 over the past century. . I don't considerthat indicriminate.  DGG ( talk ) 07:36, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Not a bad guess! This is stampdata.com's list of all persons on stamps ever; the database not being complete, I expect the final number will come in around 25k or so. Stan (talk) 17:00, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * 20 000-100,000 over the past century Yeah, that would be prime WP:INDISCRIMINATE material. Even our lists of aviation accidents (of which there probably haven't nearly been as many as that) have strict inclusion criteria. Being listed on an all-inclusive philately database is not a sign of notability for Wikipedia, in the same way being listed in an all-inclusive sports database isn't. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 12:59, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete No evidence whatsoever exists that this does meet WP:NLIST, as already stated: not in this AfD, and not in the article. Otherwise, this and all similar pages fail WP:NOTDIRECTORY (as generally "Simple listings without contextual information showing encyclopedic merit."); and furthermore, because having this is definitively a WP:BADIDEA (as evidenced by the fact people keep citing the existence of these lists as a reason to keep having them even when they fail inclusion criteria), as Wikipedia is not a philatelical catalogue and there is no indication how this kind of page is of any broader encyclopedic significance. An encyclopedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, even if it is true, and despite it possibly being interesting to a limited number of dedicated philatelical enthusiasts. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 12:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep people who appear on postage stamps appears to be a notable topic, per the sources shared by Cunard. Wikipedia is WP:NOTPAPER, there are plenty of things here that would not have articles in a paper encyclopedia. NemesisAT (talk) 10:26, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep per NemesisAT and Cunard. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 18:00, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete WP is not Stanley Gibbons. This is better as a Tumblr blog, Pictures of people pictured on stamps. Where does this lead? List of people pictured in posters? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 15:39, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. Cunard's sources show that the topic is notable, and I think that is all that is needed to justify a keep vote. CT55555 (talk) 18:55, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The sources presented by Cunard seem to be at best rather generic coverage of stamps and of the postal history of Taiwan. Some cover specific instances of someone getting depicted on a stamp, but none covers the wider topic of "people on the postage stamps of Taiwan". RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 14:28, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep there should be a general discussion about these stamp lists --Lupe (talk) 22:09, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Seems like a bad idea. The proper place to discuss articles suitability (or lack thereof) always has been AfD. On top of that, there are always individual cases which require more discussion. Finding an appropriate general discussion without falling into pitfalls of WP:NOTBURO or WP:CREEP is difficult. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 04:37, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete - None of the presented sources above actually discuss the overall topic of "People on the postage stamps of the Republic of China". At best, they each discuss a small handful of very specific individuals appearances on stamps.  But verification that some of these listed people did, in fact, appear on stamps in Taiwan does not actually confer notability to the entire topic, as they still do not discuss the topic as a group or set, which is the requirement for the notability of a standalone list, per WP:LISTN. Rorshacma (talk) 21:22, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

<ul><li>Comment: Notability says (my bolding): "Notability guidelines also apply to the creation of stand-alone lists and tables. Notability of lists (whether titled as 'List of Xs' or 'Xs') is based on the group. One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list." Here are two additional sources that show that "people on the postage stamps of the Republic of China" has been discussed "as a group or set by independent reliable sources".<ol> <li> This is a PhD thesis from Yu-Chin Huang, whose institution was the University of London. Reliable sources says (my bolding): "Dissertations – Completed dissertations or theses written as part of the requirements for a doctorate, and which are publicly available (most via interlibrary loan or from Proquest), can be used but care should be exercised, as they are often, in part, primary sources. Some of them will have gone through a process of academic peer reviewing, of varying levels of rigor, but some will not. If possible, use theses that have been cited in the literature; supervised by recognized specialists in the field; or reviewed by independent parties." This thesis has been cited in these five reliable sources:<ol> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> </ol> The abstract notes (my bolding): "Postage stamps are exclusively made by a country that is recognized by other members of the international community. Governments have always utilized these tiny images as national and international propaganda. By 1949, the Chinese Communist Party effectively controlled the Chinese Mainland and established the People's Republic of China (PRC), while the Nationalist Party fled to Taiwan to resume its Republic of China (ROC). The PRC and the ROC simultaneously asserted their sole legitimate succession to the Chinese regime, and both countries' postal authorities utilized postage stamps to build their own Chinese national identity and engage in a long-term propaganda war. ... By comparing five sets of stamp themes, including people, anniversaries, international relations, sport and the overseas Chinese, Chapter Five analyzes political, historical and ethnic identity in postage stamp designs of the 'two Chinas'." The comparison of people is on pages 229–250 of the thesis. The thesis notes on page 229: "Firstly let us begin with how the PRC and the ROC postal authorities decided who should stay on postage stamps. From 1949 to 1979, there are fifty-seven different persons in total that can be specifically identified on the postage stamps of the ROC on Taiwan. These people can be roughly classified into five topics, which are 'political figures', 'revolutionary martyrs', 'cultural figures', 'Chinese historical icons' and 'ethical and mythical figures'. Table. 5.1". Table 5.1 is labeled "Individuals Depicted on the Postage Stamps of China and Taiwan, 1949-79". Here is information from the Taiwan column of Table 5.1: <ol><li>Political figures: Sun Yat-sen, Chiang Kai Shek, Madame Chiang, Yu Youren, Wu Zhihui, Lin Sen, Chen Cheng; Abraham Lincoln, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Dwight Eisenhower.</li><li>Revolutionary martyrs: Lu Haodong, Qiu Jin, Huang Xing, Qiu Fengjia, Zhang Zizhong, Gao Zhihang, Sa Shijun, Xie Junyuan, Yan Haiwen, and Dai Anlan.</li><li>Cultural figures: Xu Guangqi, Hua Tuo, Cai Yuanpei, Qu Yuan, Li Bai, Du Fu, Bai Juyi, Zhu Xi, Zhang Tiaoyou, Sir Rowland Hill, Neil Armstrong, Michael Collins, Edwin E. Aldrin, Jr.</li><li>Ethical and mythical figures: Confucius, Mencius, Yue Fei, Wen Tianxiang, Xuan Zang, Budai Heshang, Lao Zi, Shide, Pomo Xianren, 24 Paragons of Filial Piety, Folk Tale Icons, Beijing Opera figures</li><li>Chinese historical icons: Zheng Chenggong, Tang Taizong, Song Taizu, Yuan Taizu, Ming Taizu, Di Yao, Di Shun, Xiayu Wang, Shangtan Wang, Zhouwen Wang, Zhouwu Wang, Zhou Gong, Lin Zexu</li></ol> The paragons of filial piety are discussed in this 12 September 1971 articleInternet Archive in The New York Times.</li> <li> The article notes: "The first issue of definitives following the KMT's retreat to Taiwan are made in June 1950 and consist of a portrait Cheng Cheng-kung. ... Cheng became an important element in Chiang Kai-shek's attempts to build his legitimacy and Chiang clearly used Cheng as a model. The next set of definitives, issued on Chiang's birthday in 1953, provides a portrait of Chiang in a similar style to those of Cheng. This is a conservative set of definitives, consisting of a simple portrait of the head of state." The article later notes: "This trend in definitives culminates in 1972 with the 'Chinese Culture Heroes' series featuring luminaries from the Chinese past such as Confucius ($8) and King Wen ($5.50)." The full list is hereInternet Archive on Chunghwa Post's website. The article later notes: "Chiang also quickly captured the symbols of Japanese power and authority from the colonial period, and this was clearly seen in the 1953 commemorative marking the third anniversary of Chiang's resumption of office. In these stamps the Presidential Mansion is cIearly displayed along with Chiang's portrait ... Chiang appears on 29 different issues of stamps (and his wife and her paintings occur on four issues). He makes only one appearance after the death of his son and successor Chiang Ching-kuo in 1987, and that is 'indirect'--the 1999 issue commemorating the new currency which still carries Chiang's portrait, albeit alongside more overtly Taiwanese images. Images of politicians almost completely disappear from postage stamps after the death of Chiang Kai-shek, part of a process of moving away from personality cults instigated by Chiang's successor, Chiang Ching-kuo. The exceptions are an issue in January 1989 to commemorate the first anniversary of the death of Chiang Ching-kuo (his only appearance on a stamp), and the presidential elections commemoratives issued every four years, which portray the newly elected president and vice president." </li> </ol> Saving additional sources I found that can be used to verify information in the article:

https://book.kongfz.com/278515/4362721333/ The page notes: "台湾纪222 王云五纪念邮票". This refers to Wang Yun-wu.

https://udn.com/news/story/7270/6140055 The article notes: "今年適逢馬偕博士來台150週年，中華郵政公司為感念其對台灣的奉獻，9日將發行紀念郵票. " From Google Translate: "This year marks the 150th anniversary of Dr. Ma Kai's visit to Taiwan. Chunghwa Post will issue commemorative stamps on the 9th to commemorate his dedication to Taiwan."

https://www.cna.com.tw/news/ahel/202203090195.aspx The article notes: "發行「馬偕來台150週年紀念郵票小全張」". From Google Translate: "issued the "Ma Kai's 150th Anniversary Commemorative Stamp Booklet" with the theme of Ma Kai's portrait"

https://ct.org.tw/html/news/3-3.php?cat=10&article=1389662 https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/基督教論壇報 The article notes from Google Translate: "The design of "Ma Kai came to Taiwan 150th Anniversary Commemorative Stamp" and "Mackay Commemorative Stamp Issue: The Grace of All Things Working Together".

https://www.voachinese.com/a/teresa-teng-stamps-20150415/2719627.html The article notes: "今年是歌星邓丽君逝世20周年. 台湾中华邮政总局15日（星期三）正式发行歌星邓丽君邮票. 这使得邓丽君成为中华邮政百年史上第一位正式邮票肖像的艺人. " From Google Translate: "This year marks the 20th anniversary of the death of singer Teresa Teng. On the 15th (Wednesday), Taiwan's Chunghwa Post Office officially issued stamps for singer Teresa Teng. This makes Teresa Teng the first artist to have an official stamp portrait in the 100-year history of Chunghwa Post."

https://www.mirrormedia.mg/story/20210705inv005/ The article notes: "Chunghwa Post announced last week that it will issue stamps on the anniversary of the death of former President Lee Teng-hui on July 30. A total of 2.4 million stamps will be issued in four themes. ... This is Chunghwa Post's second commemorative stamp with Lee Teng-hui as the protagonist after the first democratically elected presidential inauguration stamp in 1996; it is also the second commemorative stamp issued by the former head of state after the 150th birthday of the founding father in 2015."

https://books.google.com/books?id=fZqFDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA67 The book notes: "輯三海島上的國王為紀念戰役,鄭成功復台三百年,以台南延平郡王祠的鄭成功塑像為圖案的紀念郵票. △為紀念戰役,鄭成功復台三百年的紀念郵戳. 小方框裡的大台南 11日 29日慶祝台灣博物館建館一百年,再以鄭成功像作為郵票圖案.  1979 年2 月第一次發行的, ..." From Google Translate: "A commemorative stamp with the pattern of the statue of Zheng Chenggong in the King's Temple in Yanping County, Tainan, in order to commemorate the battle of the king on Jisanhai Island and Zheng Chenggong's 300th anniversary of the restoration of Taiwan. △ In order to commemorate the battle, the commemorative postmark of Zheng Chenggong's 300th anniversary of the restoration of Taiwan. Tainan in the small box celebrates the 100th anniversary of the establishment of the Taiwan Museum on the 11th and 29th, and then uses the portrait of Zheng Chenggong as the stamp pattern. First released in February 1979, ..."

https://books.google.com/books?id=dW0oAQAAIAAJ The book notes: "反制台的历史见证民国成立后的第一套纪念邮票,是“光复纪念”邮票,印有孙中山先生的肖像. 中日甲午战争失败后,在台南领导对日抗战解放区的第一套纪念邮票,是“抗战军的刘永福,曾发行了一种台湾邮票. 因邮票以溪人纪念”邮票. 1938 年 9 月,晋察冀边区流虎啸为图案,又被集邮界称为“独虎图”发行这套邮票,专供八路军战士寄家信邮票. 用,所以,没有印邮票面值. 图案 1895 年 7 月 31 日,刘永福采纳安是八路军战士持枪跑步前进. " From Google Translate: "The history of Counter-Counter Taiwan has witnessed the first set of commemorative stamps after the founding of the Republic of China, which is the "Recovery Commemorative" stamp, which is printed with the portrait of Dr. Sun Yat-sen. After the defeat of the Sino-Japanese War of the Sino-Japanese War, the first set of commemorative stamps in the liberated area of Tainan who led the war against Japan was "Liu Yongfu of the Anti-Japanese Army, who once issued a Taiwan stamp. Because the stamps are commemorated with Xiren" stamps. In September 1938, the roaring tiger in the Shanxi-Chahar-Hebei border area was the pattern, which was also called the "Lone Tiger Picture" by the philatelic circles. This set of stamps was issued for the Eighth Route Army soldiers to send home letters. With, therefore, no stamp denomination printed. Pattern On July 31, 1895, Liu Yongfu adopted An is a soldier of the Eighth Route Army running forward with a gun."

https://books.google.com/books?id=h5JMetpLndcC&q=%22紀念郵票%22 The book notes: "嚴前總統家淦先生百年誕辰紀念郵票,為全民所敬愛,不幸於中華民國八十二年十二月二十四日逝世,享年九十歲民國郵票「故嚴前總統家淦先生百年冥誕紀念活動」,特印製「盤前總統家淦先生百年誕辰紀念郵票」一枚,預定於九十三年十一月五日 ..." From Google Translate: "The Centennial Birth Commemorative Stamp of Mr. Jia Gan, the former President of Yan, was loved and loved by the whole people. Unfortunately, he passed away on December 24, 1982 at the age of 90. Commemorative event", a special printing of "Centenary Birth Commemorative Stamps of Mr. Jia Gan, President of Panqian", is scheduled to be held on November 5, 1993..."

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2020/05/05/2003735854 The article notes: "Chunghwa designs inauguration stamps of Tsai and VP Lai"

https://hongkongfp.com/2016/04/22/pixel-style-commemorative-stamps-for-inauguration-of-new-taiwan-president-attract-praise/ The article notes: "A set of commemorative stamps for the inauguration of the new Taiwanese president and her deputy have attracted praise in the island-nation. The stamps feature line drawing and pixelated versions of incoming president Tsai Ing-wen and vice-president-elect Chen Chien-jen. They will be issued on May 20, the date of their inauguration. Three million sets will go on sale."

https://international.thenewslens.com/article/135104 The article discusses Tsai's inaugural stamps.

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2021/07/04/2003760280 The article notes: "Chunghwa Post on Wednesday revealed five new series of stamps, including a set to commemorate the first anniversary of the death of former president Lee Teng-hui (李登輝). ... Lee is to be commemorated through a set of four stamps representing some of his many contributions to the democratization and modernization of Taiwan, it said."

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/659145 The article notes: "Taiwan Post issued a set of four stamps entitled "The Inauguration of the 12th President and Vice President of the Republic of China Commemorative Issue, " today. The limited edition stamps were issued on the day of the inauguration of President-elect Ma Ying-jeou (馬英九) and Vice President-elect Vincent Siew (蕭萬長) to mark the special occasion, the post office said."

Cunard (talk) 09:00, 15 June 2022 (UTC) </li></ul>


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.