Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people who memorized the Quran


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The merger proposals didn't convince the later contributors.  Sandstein  12:45, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

List of people who memorized the Quran

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

I don't believe memorizing the Quran is notable enough to merit a list, thousands of ordinary people memorize the Quran every year. El-Beheri (talk) 21:21, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Question: I am not very familiar with this area, so I don't know how common/unremarkable it is to memorize the Coran. One clarifying question: I find it plausible that every year thousands of people would be in the process of memorizing parts of the Coran. However, how many people truly memorize ALL of the Coran? BTW, I think the article would be better titled as List of notable people who memorized the Quran. Thank you.
 * Suggestion: if this list ends up being deleted, I wonder if the alternative would be to make sure that the people listed in it are nested (if not already) in a category of people who memorized the Quran (Hafiz) and then include a link of it in the Hafiz article.
 * Observation: This article's creation dates back to 2006, which I find quite remarkable. The topic does not appear to be fribulous or a prank; it has so far stood the test of time. I'd suggestion caution in deciding to delete it. Thank you. Al83tito (talk) 22:09, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Indeed, there are probably thousands of people who memorise the Quran every year, so obviously we'll have to limit ourselves to people who are already famous for other reasons (see my comment below), which does raise the question whether memorising the Quran has much added value in terms of notability. If so, then adding 'notable' to the title seems appropriate, if it wasn't obvious already. And indeed, as I mentioned, it is difficult to verify whether someone has memorised it ALL, and perhaps even beyond the capabilities of Wikipedians. There are Quran memorisation contests, but by far most individuals listed here will not have faced such scrutiny of their claims. As for the category, I had it deleted a few months ago, see my comment below. Finally, the fact that an article has existed for a veeeeeeery looooong time doesn't mean it has a good reason to exist, that is just an appeal to tradition. It could simply mean that we as a Wikipedia community haven't been paying attention and it has slipped through our fingers for a veeeeeeery looooong time; that hardly is a point in favour of an otherwise questionable article. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 00:22, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I believe the difference between this list and the Luxembourg list is that the sports players are notable because they're sports players, whilst memorizing the Quran doesn't give any notoriety. If you remove the sports from sports players, they become ordinary Luxembourgers, if you remove the memorization part, it makes no difference. El-Beheri (talk) 00:37, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree. That is a pretty good observation. I guess I'm in favour of Delete now then. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 09:37, 12 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Islam. Shellwood (talk) 22:43, 11 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Merge, with hafiz. The list of notable huffaz is not particularly long and so there doesn't seem to be a need for a separate article. SailingInABathTub (talk) 22:49, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * support Merge as a decent alternative to deletion. Thank you. Al83tito (talk) 06:32, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment The "Category:People who memorized the Quran" was also deleted recently, but for somewhat different reasons, see Categories for discussion/Log/2022 March 26. At the time, I argued for listifying all RS-supported members of the category, excluding all non-famous people and unsourced entries. At the moment, I am on the fence whether the list should be deleted as well. As User:JBchrch said: "I would add that memorizing sacred texts is a practice in many religions and—as far as I know—people don't become famous or notable for it; as such, it is non-defining." I'm not sure if I follow this line of reasoning. I'll try to make a somewhat random comparison, and you be the judge: why does, say, the List of Luxembourgish sports players pass GNG? Is it the 'Luxembourgish' part? No, not all 0.5 million Luxembourgers are notable. Is it the 'sports players' part? No, not all sports players in the world are notable. Is the combination of 'Luxembourgish' and 'sports players' enough to be included on the list? No, not all Luxembourgish sports players are notable, they need to have their own Wikipedia article first, e.g. personally pass GNG before qualifying for inclusion. So, it becomes evident that neither merely being Luxembourgish, nor merely a sports player, nor both, is enough to personally pass GNG and thus be included on the list. They probably need to be a particularly famous sports player that has won a fair number of prizes or otherwise catch the public eye frequently (not WP:ONEEVENT). 'Luxembourgish' is just a way to group large numbers of famous sports players by nationality. So, how do "people who memorized the Quran" stack up in this equation? They are not famous for being "people", they are probably not famous for "memorising" the Quran either, which would probably fall under WP:ONEEVENT. (Then again, there is a List of people who died climbing Mount Everest, in which people without their own articles can be included if there are RS confirming their membership of the group, so who knows?) If anything, only "the Quran" itself is famous. Huffaz are famous for a bunch of other things, and their accomplishment of memorising the Quran is a fun fact that you can add somewhere in the footnotes of their biography. E.g. memorising the Quran is not part of what Sayyid Qutb, Aurangzeb, Omar Khadr or Recep Tayyip Erdoğan are famous for; they are famous for their influence in politics. Although memorising the Quran may be thought of as some kind of competition, and in that sense could result in people becoming famous just like sports players who win lots of prizes, it usually doesn't happen in that kind of a competitive setting. It is more of a personal achievement of religious piety that happens over the course of several weeks or months of study, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of scrutiny to verify one's claim that one has memorised it. All in all, it is a very strange kind of grouping of people for a list. As said, I'm on the fence, I could see it going both ways. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 23:54, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * @Nederlandse Leeuw I unfortunately don't have the time to take a look at this in detail right now, but I will just note that CFD discussions are based on WP:OC, which calls for practical and intuitive judgment, while AFD discussions are based on WP:GNG, which calls for source-based evidence. JBchrch   talk  16:32, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete Not an encyclopedic topic and certainly runs afoul of WP:NOT (Simple listings without contextual information showing encyclopedic merit). Some of the sourcing is very sketchy - the entry on Mir Sayyid Ali Hamadani is from a defunct website that looks like it was a blog post even when it did exist. How are we to take seriously the assertions that a figure from centuries ago memorized the Quran? Pretty useless list. Wes sideman (talk) 13:57, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think the problem is the article in it's current form, that can certainly be improved; I think it's about the premise itself, which is not noteworthy enough to merit an article of its own. El-Beheri (talk) 16:00, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree on that point as well - I brought it up more to point out that it seems someone or someones are stretching really hard to try to validate the premise. Either way, delete. Wes sideman (talk) 10:22, 14 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete It is like a list of people who attended/graduated from a university. Wikipedia is not a directory. Issues related to education should be mentioned on the biographical articles only. ─ The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  05:09, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete - Let us start by the most pressing issue - verifiability. Who has verified these people memorised a text? Yes, Islam itself is an important religion globally. However memorising a text is not notable regardless of what was memorised, and so this list is not appropriate. MaxnaCarta (talk) 09:06, 20 July 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.