Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of politicians convicted of crimes


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Happy to temp undelete somewhere if someone is prepared to create some categories or more manageable lists that could be maintainable Spartaz Humbug! 21:46, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

List of politicians convicted of crimes

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I would guess the number of entries possible here would be somewhere in the millions. This list is unmanageable and fairly indiscriminate aside from "convicted of a crime" and is a BLP nightmare waiting to happen. Praxidicae (talk) 14:43, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. – Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 14:50, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. – Lord Bolingbroke (talk) 14:50, 3 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete (I was writing this as the nomination statement, so apologies if it's a little less like a normal comment) This risks becoming something akin to List of people who have ever lived - attempting to list every politician who has ever committed a crime is going to become an indiscriminate mess of notable and non-notable persons, so we'll then have the usual fights over notable and non-notable politicians. There will be the obligatory BLP violations. The edit warring over convictions which have been appealed, overturned, dismissed, pardoned etc. We don't have any indication of the inclusion criteria, will parking tickets or trivial criminal code violations warrant inclusion on the list, and if so, we're then back to BLP violations once again. What about those politicians convicted more than once of the same offence, or of difference offences, on different dates. I will support the creation of a couple of very specific lists - List of politicians convicted of treason would potentially be worth pursuing, as would List of politicians convicted by the International Criminal Court. I'd maybe even accept List of politicians convicted of murder, but if we're including general crimes, most of which will have been committed outwith public office, I can't see how it's notable or will ever be anything other than an indiscriminate collection of data. Nick (talk) 14:54, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment. I agree that this is overbroad as structured; note that it's a new creation by a new editor. But that just means this would be best served as a list of lists. The nominator and commenter above are off base in thinking that this is something that can't or shouldn't be listed, as it is something that we categorize (and "it's too hard" is not a deletion argument). Category:Politicians convicted of crimes has a very well developed subcategory structure that sublists could parallel, such as by nationality, or by particular crime such as corruption, etc. We do have some more targeted lists existing here and there, such as List of American federal politicians convicted of crimes. postdlf (talk) 15:48, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep This should be reconfigured as a list of lists as we have numerous pages for this already, including:
 * Category:British politicians convicted of crimes
 * Category:Politicians convicted of crimes
 * 1) List of American federal politicians convicted of crimes
 * Category:Politicians convicted of crimes by nationality
 * 1) List of American state and local politicians convicted of crimes
 * Category:English politicians convicted of crimes
 * Category:American politicians convicted of crimes
 * Category:Irish politicians convicted of crimes
 * Category:Indian politicians convicted of crimes
 * Category:Politicians convicted of corruption
 * See also WP:CLN which explains that we maintain a variety of methods of navigation, as they complement each other.
 * Andrew🐉(talk) 18:42, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak keep. This is an indiscriminate list topic, but in agreement with some of the other contributors to this discussion I would prefer to split this into sub-lists based on either nationality or type of crime. This could be a discussion after AfD. Ajf773 (talk) 02:41, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep agree with comments of Ajf773.Shyamsunder (talk) 06:58, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete or split. To be effective, such list should be organized by country, e.g. List of British politicians convicted of crimes. I think it should not exist in present state. The lists can be incomplete, but not that much. Lists covering less than 0.0001% of subjects/objects which need to be included are misleading. My very best wishes (talk) 00:55, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * On balance, Keep. I don't think the criteria is necessarily vague given the word "convicted". In accordance with WP:NLIST, this list could aide Wikipedia readers for navigation and information. There are plenty of blue links and notable politicians here. We could potentially consider it a dynamic list. Patiodweller (talk) 21:29, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   15:31, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. North America1000 17:25, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Split into sublists, as it would be ginormously humungous otherwise. In fact, as Andrew has already demonstrated, there are already sublists out there. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:23, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * KEEP Category:Politicians convicted of crimes exist, so no sense not having a list also that shows more information. Split into separate list if it gets too long.   D r e a m Focus  01:06, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete or Split, indiscriminate list. Splitting might be worth it, but it would take someone willing to do it. People tend not to follow through on promises made in AfDs about improving articles. Also, it seems kind of pointless to have lists for topics that already have categories. Which are basically lists. --Adamant1 (talk) 04:44, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete Vague, potentially enormous, better handled as categories. And why is it particularly interesting if someone who was a governor or a state senator is convicted of some minor offense unrelated to their political career?Brianyoumans (talk) 16:08, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Such a large list, it really will neither ever be complete nor focused enough to be useful. You might as well have a list of politicians who wore ties. A more focused list, capital crimes or a specific category of crime, may be useful; this list is not that. Ifnord (talk) 16:15, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete this list does not comply with two of our most fundamental policies: WP:BLP and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. A list of historical politicians would be fine, and a list with absolutely clear criteria for inclusion (which respect BLPCRIME, not just V) but LISTN is a guideline which itself states it must comply with BLP/INDISCRIMINATE. So delete, and consider a new form of list which is policy-compliant. ——  Serial  16:21, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SALAT, WP:BLP, etc. Way too vague/problematic/indiscriminate. If someone wants to create a list of lists, that's fine, but that's not remotely what this page is, nor the title a list of lists would exist at, so there's no point keeping. &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 16:37, 19 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.