Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of ports in Greece


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was  k eep. - Mailer Diablo 10:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

List of ports in Greece

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

1. Satisfies WP:CSD A 3: Any article consisting only of links elsewhere (including hyperlinks, category tags and "see also" sections), a rephrasing of the title, and/or attempts to correspond with the person or group named by its title. This does not include disambiguation pages.

2a. WP:NOT #2: Wikipedia articles are not: Mere collections of internal links, except for disambiguation pages when an article title is ambiguous, and for structured lists to assist with the organisation of articles.

2b. There is already Category: Ports and harbours of Greece which contains most of the articles in this list. Cowbert 03:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Strong keep - Tag the list appropriately for improvement, but don't delete as per List_guidelines. It seems difficult for me to even see how it could supposedly satisfy speedy deletion criteria. As for #2, it is not a mere collection of links because it can be used for content development (#3 in List_guideline). As for point 2b - categories cannot be used for content development in the same ways that lists can. --Remi 04:20, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep. Lists and categories are fundamentally different, and categories do not supersede lists.  Lists  1) contain essential redlinks, which are how the project grows (an article without redlinks is like a branch, snipped below the lowest viable bud) -- categories cannot contain redlinks; 2) lists can be annotated with other useful information, whereas a category can only ever contain a bare list of article titles.  While this list is not yet annotated, it can still be improved that way.  Antandrus  (talk) 04:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: This was just speedy closed by G1ggy. I can't see why that was the right thing to do, and so I am reopening. If I have made a horrible mistake, please message me. J Milburn 15:56, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: Reasons for this can be found on my RfA, under Lanky's oppose vote. ~  G1ggy!  blah, blah, blah 23:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletions.  -- Pax:Vobiscum 18:20, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep but it needs to be clarified whether this is (a) a list of current passerger terminals; (b) a list of current freight terminals; (c) a list of any town which has ever served as a port or (d) a list of coastal/river towns with some facilities to moor light craft & narrowboats; any of the four could serve as a definition of "port" —  irides centi   (talk to me!)  20:26, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, lists of these kinds are useful in ways categories are not: (a) sourcing - probably little here is controversial so granted less of an issue; and (b) inclusion of red links for expansion and inclusiveness; many lists have lots of red links and we just don't toss them out and say "categorize these"... Carlossuarez46 21:44, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Convert to category - this kind of list is much better as a category, unless the objective is to idnetify articles that are needed. Peterkingiron 23:41, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Category already exists (Category: Ports and harbours of Greece) Cowbert 03:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep I've personally never seen an encyclopedia with no lists in it, and am certainly in favor of inclusion as opposed to exclusion. This is not a list of random places. They are specific real places that a wiki user might realistically want information on. Suppose you are reading the article on Greece, Greek Maritime Industry (part of the Greece article), or Greek shipping. A list of ports could be of interest to you; particularly if you didn't know the proper spelling of the port name. Wikification to this list works well, because it doesn't clutter up either of these articles with information you might not be looking for, yet you can step right to it from a link or straight to it from the search window if you are specifically looking for ports. Plus, with its own page, content can be added to this article which can give more specific information on physical attributes of the ports, the distribution of the ports around the coastline of Greece, what certain ports are mainly used for, historical connections of ports, and so on. The possibilities for expansion of this article are quite broad, but I would hope that the first new edit would be one that included a bit of information as a lead in. More information is better than not enough. The subject of maritime industry and shipping is certainly complemented by knowledge of the ports where they occur. More information on the ports might lead one to a better understanding of Greece's strong ties to the sea. Further, I can't find any reason to disagree with any of the other keeper's suggestions. I'd say Remi0o hit it right on the head as the first keeper with solid points against the complaints. Much more concise than my opinion. I just don't think the exclusionist idea of 'this fits these criteria; axe it,' can ever lead to comprehensive content. Aspenocean 14:30, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, per above. Definitely encyclopedic. -- Phoenix  (talk) 23:29, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.