Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of professional webcomic artists


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. postdlf (talk) 14:26, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

List of professional webcomic artists

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There are several major issues with keeping this list, which was why I pushed so hard to replace it with webcomics and income, which describes the nature of professional webcomic creation much more meaningfully. I want this list to be deleted for the following reasons: Nearly all notable webcomics and webcartoonists with a Wikipedia article are professional, as are many who don't. It is incredibly hard to source for any given webcomic creator whether or not they do so professionally. There are a lot of webcartoonists these days that may be primarily known by their offline work (like Sam Hiti or Victor Santos), making "professional webcomic artist" more difficult to define. When it comes to purely online works, a lot of highly niche webcomics (like El Goonish Shive and, from what I've heard from the creator herself, Rain) that are created professionally but will likely never reach notability guidelines. Finally, there are sources that have used this list to estimate the total number of professional webcomic artists (like The Boston Globe here), but the thing is: It is impossible to list all of the hundreds of them. ~ Mable ( chat ) 08:12, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * comment I'm not certain this list needs to be deleted, but if it's kept it does need to be refocused to List of webcomic creators. For reasons Maplestrip pointed out, the professional tag is too vague. It was probably put in to help establish notability, but that is theoretically built into a list if it's blue links only. There's also quite a bit of overlap between physical comics, digital comics, and webcomics. It would also be awkward to breakdown something like The Private Eye. Writer Vaughn had other income during its run, but artist Martin did not. So, would Martin be the only one listed as making it "professional"? Argento Surfer (talk) 21:10, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I would be alright with a List of webcomic creators conceptually, but I don't know how such a list would be meaningfully structured. I personally believe a category would suffice. What kind of information would such a list include? I am also worried that very few people would be interested in adding to it, which is in theory not a reason for deletion, but would in practice be a very unfortunate situation. ~ Mable ( chat ) 21:27, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Off hand, it would be useful when a creator article would otherwise be an orphan or otherwise underlinked. Outside of that use, I rarely add to lists myself. I saw the category already existed, and thought this would fit under the CLT umbrella. Argento Surfer (talk) 21:42, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kurykh (talk) 00:46, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Gabe Iglesia (talk) 17:55, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Gabe Iglesia (talk) 17:55, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 18:08, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment I concur with Maplestrip above, in the sense that this list need not necessarily be deleted. We have, after all, somewhere, in the vast Wikipediaverse a template of sort that more or less states that a list is probably incomplete and might not ever be such, so it works. It is, after all, a work in progress, and people will add to it whenever they see fit. The article works. No, strike that, I go keep. --Ouro (blah blah) 19:04, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * There is no interest in listing webcartoonists who do their craft professionally, though. The subject of this list is about as arbitrary as a List of professional musicians or List of professional video game designers. If the purpose is simply listing all notable webcartoonists, then that would be one thing, but "do you make enough money to live from this" is a whimsical scope. ~ Mable ( chat ) 19:44, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Why not move it to List of webcomic artists? It sounds like that would resolve most of your issues with it. Argento Surfer (talk) 20:17, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * (more irritations) How does a third-party source even report whether a webcartoonist is professional in the first place? Aren't these all self-reported one way or another? Like, I mentioned _El Goonish Shive_ above, but who knows, maybe Dan Shive has a side gig which he considers his primary job. It's not like any sources ever talk about him anyway. I could probably ask him on social media whether he is professional or not, and then add him to this list, but what's the point even? That's just showing how indiscriminate this list really is. What is keeping webcartoonists from lying, by the way? I suppose that's what the two sections are about, but if there's doubt in the self-reported ones, why list them at all? Urgh, this list annoys me so much XD ~ Mable ( chat ) 19:52, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I can actually do with whimsical, and I find it suitable enough to say that Wikipedia can, too. This may be useful for people who are maybe lost in the world or considering a change in their lives, asking themselves whether their talent can be put to good use like this, whether they could live off this; or for research, or just for browsing stuff. And to follow up, why not list all notable webcartoonists, people who draw a lot and are watched by others, why not. And, in truth, without jest, if the list annoys You then You are by all means free to !vote for it being removed. I voiced my considerations here without any references, what I write is very subjective (I don't believe in being objective at all). In the end, somebody or others will more or less decide on the fate of the article, if their covictions are strong enough, but I kind of feel that this, if deleted, will get recreated at some point for the sheer reason that the topic popular enough for others to care that some stuff be listed here that actually tickles them. Just thoughts, really. --Ouro (blah blah) 20:12, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the rambling, but yes, what you described is exactly what I created webcomics and income for, which happens to list a lot of professional webcomic creators as well in a less random manner. ~ Mable ( chat ) 20:52, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * So why not merge the two, huh? --Ouro (blah blah) 22:59, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * You are suggesting a posibly endless list as a section of an otherwise regular article? What would the point of that be? I'm currently busy with getting the article to GA, and I see no point in adding an arbitrary list of successful webcartoonists to it... ~ Mable ( chat ) 10:46, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Just pondering whether it's workable really. --Ouro (blah blah) 05:28, 17 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm working on a generalized list of notable webcartoonists here. I still need to add a lot of American webcomic creators, but it's already far more complete than the list of professional webcartoonists, particularly because it defines a much clearer inclusion criteria. When I move this list to the mainspace, do you believe the list under discussion can be redirected/deleted?
 * Done, waiting for feedback :) ~ Mable ( chat ) 16:02, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Will reply in Your talk. --Ouro (blah blah) 23:33, 18 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.