Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of progressive house artists


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Artists being wrongly listed can be addressed by editing. Consensus is that this is an allowed navigational aid.  So Why  09:07, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

List of progressive house artists

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Indiscriminate unsourced "fan-made" list. Content not suitable for the encyclopedia as original research. - The   Magnificentist  19:28, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails OR, LIST. Indiscriminate, but probably okay as a category if some criteria could be established regarding the genre. South Nashua (talk) 19:46, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:44, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 20:45, 9 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment. The nominator actually created Category:Progressive house musicians, so I'm confused by this nomination. postdlf (talk) 00:22, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Categories are different from articles and don't need sources. E.g. a person who is not deceased is presumed to have the category "Living people". The category addition of "progressive house musicians" is done by referring to the information available on the articles. - The   Magnificentist  02:51, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
 * No, that doesn't make sense. It's the same information either way. And it isn't the presence or lack of supporting sources in an article that makes a statement verifiable or OR, it's simply whether those supporting sources exist. postdlf (talk) 16:09, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Category:Progressive house musicians: as noted, fails WP:LIST and WP:OR, and similar lists in the past now redirect to their respective category. Note that List of house music artists should also be redirected to a relevant category, probably Category:House musicians. Richard3120 (talk) 04:03, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:LIST is an index of guidelines. postdlf (talk) 16:09, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:CLN and WP:LISTPURP as an index of articles complementary to Category:Progressive house musicians. The only reason we'd ever delete a list as OR is if its underlying concept is unverifiable such that membership could not be verified by RS for any entries. That clearly is not claimed here as the nominator supports (and created) the corresponding category, yet somehow thinks the same information is OR just because it's presented in a list? That's not a coherent deletion rationale, and if the information is verifiable, then sources exist and the format in which it is presented has no impact on that. If this list has erroneous entries, fix it. Generally speaking, if the category properly applies it should be included in the list as well and vice versa (and if anything, lists can be more tolerant of borderline inclusion because they can annotate where and why sources disagree on a classification). Side note: Whether this should be renamed to List of progressive house musicians to match the category (or the other way around) should be addressed once this is closed. postdlf (talk) 16:09, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
 * My problem with this list is that probably 90% of it is indeed unverifiable by RS for the artists' entries. Just looking at the entries under "A", Avicii has "progressive house" listed under his genres despite no references suggesting that (and indeed I think most people would be surprised to see him called a progressive house DJ), and ATB and DJ Antoine are also included despite no references to progressive house whatsoever in their respective articles. I understand your reasoning, but at the moment the article is an unreferenced and seemingly indiscriminate list of DJs of all genres, and it needs cutting down dramatically and proper criteria applied to justify its keeping. Richard3120 (talk) 13:17, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The Avicii article lists progressive house in the infobox. Both Beatport and Discogs list numerous progressive house tracks by Avicii.  These are the probable reasons why that artist is included.  DJ Antoine is in the proghouse cat and may of been added to the list because of that.  I see this artist does have some tracks that are in the proghouse category at beatport.  Its both a referencing issue and a criteria determination that needs addressing before deletion. - Shiftchange (talk) 14:26, 12 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep. This is useful list similar to dub, downtempo and house artists.  I haven't seen a reason for deletion.  I can see it needs better references and in the long term possibly conversion into a table with fields, but not removal or redirect. - Shiftchange (talk) 12:37, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
 * could you explain please how it is useful if it includes so many artists who shouldn't be on this list? Richard3120 (talk) 13:21, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Music genres (and therefore who, and who does not produces music in a specific genre) are fuzzy, unlike defined geographical borders, for example. If the article requires improvement in this respect we should have a discussion about criteria for inclusion. We should also move towards some consensus on reliability of sources because there is some contention about using beatport.com.  I'm comfortable with having a list that not everyone agrees with but of course we should find sources to support statements. - Shiftchange (talk) 14:12, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem – apologies if I came across as aggressive, I was just asking for some clarification on how you viewed the list. You're absolutely right about genres – when editing music articles it's an area I rarely get involved in, but it seems to account for the majority of edit wars on music articles... I find it baffling that people argue over "correct genres" but do nothing to improve the article itself. Anyway, yes, I think we should only include artists in the list who have been called "progressive house" by reliable sources, even though that often means including quite different artists (I can't hear any musical similarity whatsoever between Sasha and Swedish House Mafia, for example, but I can find references that list both as playing progressive house, so they are both included in the list). Discogs and Beatport aren't usually considered RS, so perhaps there needs to be a discussion on that. Richard3120 (talk) 16:42, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Because we don't delete articles for fixable problems. You surmised that 90% is inaccurate, even assuming that's true that still leaves 10% of the current entries. That's work that may not get done for a long time, but that still doesn't weigh towards deletion, and deletion certainly doesn't help development one bit. If it's a notable genre, and if there are notable musicians that verifiably qualify as belonging to/working in that genre, then these should be listed. All else is editing, not deletion, according to policy. postdlf (talk) 13:54, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
 * that's fine, I just wanted to see where we stand. So you wouldn't object if I (or anyone else) talke an axe to the list and trim it down considerably to those artists we can reliably reference? Richard3120 (talk) 16:34, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
 * It's usually best not to drastically change an article while an AFD is pending. But so long as your removals are based on what we cannot source, not merely what we have not yet sourced, WP:PRESERVE is satisfied. It may also be considered reasonable to remove entries from this list (and the category) if the article does not even mention this genre. postdlf (talk) 17:45, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, thank you – I won't change anything for now because otherwise it will affect the opinions of other editors who may want to comment on this AfD but will see a completely different article from the one that was put up for deletion. Richard3120 (talk) 18:15, 12 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:NOTDUP relative to Category:Progressive house musicians. Also meets WP:LISTPURP as a functional navigational aid. For example:
 * The list article has received 1,996 page views in the last 30 days, whereas
 * The category page has received only 141 page views in the last 30 days.
 * – Concerns about verification, etc. can be addressed by copy editing the article and adding sources. North America1000 02:50, 16 July 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.