Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of proven or alleged pre-Weinstein historical sexual assaults in the entertainment industry


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  08:57, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

List of proven or alleged pre-Weinstein historical sexual assaults in the entertainment industry

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This doesn't seem to be notable; although the string of sexual abuse claims made after the Weinstein claims might be notable, these certainly aren't. RileyBugz 会話投稿記録 21:44, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. ʍaɦʋɛօtʍ (talk) 21:47, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. ʍaɦʋɛօtʍ (talk) 21:47, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. ʍaɦʋɛօtʍ (talk) 21:47, 19 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete. This article appears to have been created in response to an editing conflict at 'Casting couch'. As a result, we have a list that appears to be meshing 'casting couch' allegations with broader sexual harassment allegations under a somewhat arbitrary title. Some information here could be incorporated into an article (nb. not list) that deals specifically with the wider, and well reported, issue of sexual harassment in the entertainment industry (thus helping to mitigate some WP:BLP and WP:OR issues), or used to expand the 'Casting couch' article. But it doesn't work in this article, in this form. Eloquai (talk) 22:53, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Which is less likely to be deleted: a new Sexual harassment in the entertainment industry article or an expansion of the Casting couch article?Growlies (talk) 23:45, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 * None of them, if done well. But, the scope of this list (basically, what it includes) is a bit arbitrary. It would probably be ok to create a new article with a similar title, removed pre-Weinstein historical, and possible "alleged" (because there might be BLP violations there), and then include this as a section (as the Weinstein allegations seem to be opening up a new "chapter", per se, in terms of how sexual harassment is dealt with in entertainment). RileyBugz 会話投稿記録 23:52, 19 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Delete What subjects like this need are reliable source based articles, not lists. Especially when we include "proven or alleged" in the title. That is troublesome. I am not saying everything needs to be "proven", but we need to base material on reliable sources, and avoid being a tabloid. The "casting couch" phenomenon does seem to relate to some of the sexual harrassment allegations against Weinstien and others, but there are other such allegations of sexual assault and harassment that do not fit into the narrow "have sex to get a part in the film" allegations. I also had a friend who was told she would have to have sex with the director or producer (I don't remember which) to have a chance to audition for a film, this was back around 1970, and she not only refused this offer but instead chose to not go into film at all. The person I know we have an article on her husband, and she is mentioned in that article, but I do not have easily accessable sources to show it. I have heard her tell the story once or twice to a gathering of people, probably about 20 in number, but I do not believe she has ever sought to expose it to the media. Actually the way she tells the story it is meant as a general indicting of the lack of moral fibre in the American film industry, showing a darkness of abuse of power and overly high demands for sex that make it hard to go after specific instances of sexual harrassment. There seems to be a new view since the break of mainstream media exposees of Weinstein in early October 2017, but weather this new climate can really mean that allegations against any individual will be given a fair trial, or if it is that Weinstein fell to this because he was no longer as big a mover in Hollywood as he once was, remains to be seen.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:33, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete An indiscriminate list of information. We've got enough coverage of Weinstein in other articles; stick to the facts and leave the gossip to the tabloid newspapers. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  10:14, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete - Yes, prior, current and future sexual misconduct in politics, entertainment, the big corporation at the office complex, the tiny coffee shop on the corner, etc. are serious issues. The Franensteined title here, however, is not a discrete, notable topic. What is an "allegation"? Are we looking at when the incident allegely occurred or when the allegation was made? What is the date for "pre-Weinstein"? What is the "entertainment industry"? A manager at a video store was charged with "indecent assault" in 1985. If that isn't included, why not? If it is, this is going to be one hell of a long list. We don't have sources describing this topic, we have sources describing individual assaults and accusations that we are grouping together in a category we have constructed. That is not encyclopedic. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 05:05, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
 * To be fair to the creator of this list, it was created in response to something I said in a discussion about recent additions to casting couch. The choice of title is probably my fault. World&#39;s Lamest Critic (talk) 05:27, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Clarification: While I cannot speak for anyone else, I am here to fix what I see as a problem (having and article that we shouldn't have). I am not here to fix blame (whose "fault" it is). Unless there is intentional disruption or serious competency problems (which I don't see here), there's no "fault". - Sum mer PhD v2.0 05:40, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment- I think a list including "alleged" sexual assaults is always going to be a WP:BLP issue. Last week I would have voted to delete it on that basis, but last week I was not aware of Me Too (hashtag). It feels like this is a lost cause. World&#39;s Lamest Critic (talk) 05:44, 26 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.