Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of quadrant routes in Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 19:37, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

List of quadrant routes in Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

No indication why this would be a notable subject. Sourced to maps and an unreliable source, doesn't seem to have the subject (as a group) of significant, independent attention. It doesn't look as if any other source ever paid attention to the quadrant routes of Lackawanna County Fram (talk) 13:45, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Transportation and Pennsylvania. Fram (talk) 13:45, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Neutral - Per WP:GEOROAD, which is part of the notability guideline, “International road networks (such as the International E-road network), Interstate, national, state and provincial highways are typically notable.” However, secondary state highway systems such as quadrant routes in Pennsylvania are better suited to be covered in lists such as this. Past precedent has kept lists of secondary state highways, such as Articles for deletion/List of Farm to Market Roads in Texas (1–99). That being said, this list isn’t perfect and does need some cleanup.  Dough   4872   13:52, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * You forgot to quote the next part: "Topic notability for county roads, regional roads (such as Ireland's regional roads), local roads, streets and motorway service areas may vary, and are presumed to be notable if they have been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which contain significant coverage and are reliable and independent of the subject." Fram (talk) 13:56, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * These are not county, regional, or local roads though. They are state highways that are maintained by the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation. Quadrant routes are a secondary state highway system to the Interstates, U.S. Routes, and State highways with numbers below 1000.  Dough   4872   13:58, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * That's using a very loose definition of "state highway", and makes me wonder what a "county road" would be then. These quadrant routes are county-bound. More importantly, they seem to lack all actual notability (i.e. discussion in sources, not arbitrary "we declare them to be notable" guidelines). Fram (talk) 14:07, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Why should the lists be organized by county? That seems arbitrary and presumably means there's plenty of overlap between the various by county lists. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 16:30, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Because these "state highways" get renumbered at the county borders. But we may not consider them to be "county roads" though, and they are automatically notable despite these articles being sources solely to maps (see e.g. this article from 2011. Time to give that notability guideline the Sports treatment I guess. Fram (talk) 16:46, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Note that the numbers also get reused, so you can have e.g. many different "QR1001" raods in Pennsylvania. Fram (talk) 16:50, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 22:01, 6 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep- As stated by Dough4872, these Routes are apart of the State Highway System. (See Pennsylvania State Route System for more details.) The Pennsylvania Roads project needs the assistance to make these lists and stub articles better. Thanks! Jmpenzone (talk) 22:14, 6 December 2022 (UTC)


 * delete I haven't found an actual definition of what a quadrant route is, but explanation from the state of how the numbering system works seems to indicate that they are county-level roads which are under state maintenance. I looked along several of these SE of Carbondale, and as far as I can tell they are almost completely unmarked as numbered routes; there are apparently some segment markers which use the numbers, but I didn't come upon any. Quadrant routes numbered from 8000-9999 are various kinds of service roads such as rest areas, truck runaway ramps, and exit roads. I can find no discussion of them as a class outside these explanations of the numbering and segment measuring/location system. The fact seems to be that this class of roads is pretty much non-notable, so I don't see keeping lists of them. Mangoe (talk) 03:52, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. I believe that a capstone article that explains the quadrant routes system would meet the GNG, but I don't think the individual routes that make up each county's system do. –Fredddie™ 19:20, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak delete I believe this is what "typically" in WP:GEOROAD is supposed to be used for - generally yes, state highways are notable, but it does not necessarily extend to exceptional cases like secondary state highways. Since this was already condensed to a table and doesn't provide any enlightenment that's not a good sign. Open to convincing but I'm not sure this is worth keeping. --Rschen7754 01:35, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment - To provide more context about quadrant routes in Pennsylvania, they are a secondary state highway system with numbers only unique within a county and can be repeated in different counties. Routes in the 1000s to the 4000s are roads assigned by quadrants, sometimes only bridges or a collection of bridges along a local road. Numbers in the 6000s are old alignments of other roads. Numbers in the 8000s are interchange ramps while numbers in the 9000s are truck escape ramps, rest areas, wye connections, etc. These route numbers are not signed with traditional route markers but with little white signs. In addition, the route numbers are only used in PennDOT sources such as maps and straight-line diagrams and are rarely used by the general public, who typically refer to quadrant routes by their names. As Fredddie suggested, I think having a capstone article about the quadrant route system that explains the numbering system is a good idea, but list by counties may be a little excessive as the numbers are rarely used outside PennDOT. Right now we have lists for 24 of the 67 counties in Pennsylvania, including Lackawanna. If we choose to not keep these lists, perhaps we should bundle the other 23 lists into this discussion. Pennsylvania Quadrant Routes shows all the lists that have been created.  Dough   4872   03:07, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Like I said in my !v, I think an article about quadrant routes, but not the routes themselves, would meet the GNG. As such I started Draft:Quadrant routes in Pennsylvania. –Fredddie™ 17:20, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. Although quadrant routes are state maintained, they individually function more like county highways and collectively like 67 individual systems, not a statewide system. Although there may be press on the general concept or establishment of the quadrant route system, an individual county's quadrant route system is unlikely to have such coverage. Therefore, the lists are not notable and should be deleted. If an individual quadrant route has press coverage, that quadrant route can have a standalone article.  V C  05:07, 8 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.