Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of railway stations in Colombia


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 11:50, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

List of railway stations in Colombia

 * – ( View AfD View log )

This list article is an absolute mess. Let me start by saying that I am a Brit who has lived for over a decade in Bogota, so I know many of these station buildings first-hand. The list of stations fails WP:LISTN because it hasn't been discussed in any reliable sources as a group, and it fails WP:LISTCRIT because the title of this article is ambiguous... this is not a list of current railway stations in Colombia because there haven't been any passenger services at all in the country for several decades, so none of these stations currently serve any passengers. Technically speaking, this is a List of railway stations of the Bogota Savannah Railway as of 1953, but apart from being an unwieldy title, an identical list already exists at Bogota Savannah Railway, so this unsourced list is a duplicate, and in fact makes much more sense within the Bogota Savannah Railway article, as all these stations were part of that specific rail network. I should add that of this list, some stations still exist for freight transport, some exist for the tourist train, some exist as buildings which have been repurposed, some are abandoned and derelict, and some have disappeared completely, so trying to establish a definitive list of current stations depends on the criteria for defining a "station" in 2021, hence failing WP:LISTCRIT. There were also dozens of other stations belonging to other railway franchises elsewhere in the country (and many of these buildings still exist as well, none of them serving any trains now), but as they aren't mentioned at all here, this list makes it look like the only railway stations in Colombia were in and around Bogota, which is completely untrue. The rest of the article talks about existing and planned future lines (not stations, hence confusing the scope of the article), which are better addressed in Rail transport in Colombia, and in fact already are, with better sources. So everything in this article already exists elsewhere, in less confusing articles, so there's nothing to merge. Richard3120 (talk) 19:51, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Colombia-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 19:53, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 19:53, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 20:05, 9 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment WP:LISTCRIT is definitely satisfied, and WP:LISTN says "one accepted reason...," not the "only reason." This type of list exists for other countries as well, though a couple I double-checked appear in similarly undeveloped states. Stations need not serve passengers to be included on the list, and I really don't think there's any controversy about what "station" means in 2021, as the stations could be all defunct or disappeared but still be valid members of the list (under a "former" heading). I'm commenting instead of !voting because I think this is a valid list article and deletion is not cleanup, but there may be a conversation to be had about List of railway stations in country articles, and the cleanup here may require WP:TNT, so I'm square in the "netural" ground. This is neither a clear keep nor a clear delete, but we need to decide how best to clean it up. SportingFlyer  T · C  20:11, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * thanks for your comment. To be honest, I can't see how any of "unambiguous, objective, and supported by reliable sources" is met at WP:LISTCRIT. I did consider a rename to List of former railway stations in Colombia... the problem is that I can't find any sources, reliable or otherwise, that would provide me with the names for that list. The Spanish Wikipedia includes around 150 stations broken down over several pages for the individual lines, but no sources for any of those stations. I'm just worried that we'll end up with a long list of names with no sources and no context. Richard3120 (talk) 20:46, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * If the goal is just to represent that places had stations at one point, that's probably fine. There are places for lists of things which aren't notable enough for their own article - you're right that we just need sources. The Spanish language articles on Colombian railroads all contain station lists, so the information has to be somewhere. SportingFlyer  T · C  21:24, 9 March 2021 (UTC)


 * If we had enough articles on notable stations, this would undoubtedly pass WP:LISTPURP; LISTN really has no utility in analyzing lists of things by what they are and where they are located. If that's not the case, however, this title should at least exist as a redirect, I would assume to the more general Rail transport in Colombia article, where there is a section that just points to this list, though the nom thinks it's covered at Bogotá Savannah Railway. I guess that would work if all notable stations, past or present, would be covered by that topic; Category:Railway stations in Colombia just has two articles at present other than this list. I am not concerned with the former vs. current distinction that the nom is, as that status is something that could be identified and explained in article text, wherever it is found. There is also a Category:Defunct railway stations category structure. postdlf (talk) 21:01, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * well, the list DOES exist at Bogotá Savannah Railway, I'm not sure what you're getting at. As the Rail transport in Colombia article doesn't include any stations, I'm not sure why redirecting there would be helpful. The problem with the section in Rail transport in Colombia is that it is titled "Stations served", and as there are no stations served anywhere in the country, that's not a useful section at all. The only notable railway station in the whole country is the De la Sabana railway station which is the main station in Bogota: the General Santander station also currently included in Category:Railway stations in Colombia is part of the TransMilenio rapid bus transit system, so it's a bus station, not a train station, and shouldn't be in that category. Richard3120 (talk) 21:23, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I actually just discovered Category:Medellín Metro stations, I would expect those to also be included in a list of railway stations in the county. postdlf (talk) 21:39, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Indeed, although absolutely none of them are notable apart from being metro stations and are probably pretty much unsourced as well. Richard3120 (talk) 21:56, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Unsourced isn't a concern here so long as it can be sourced. Regardless, that means that not every railway station we'd be listing is part of the Bogotá Savannah Railway. I'm leaning towards keep and expand this list instead. postdlf (talk) 22:09, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That is exactly my concern – I'm very dubious that they can be sourced from anything other than the Medellin metro system's website, so WP:PRIMARY, as there is nothing remarkable or historical about any of the metro stations. If the consensus is to expand the list, then fine, but I still suspect it will be unsourced from anything other than primary sources... like the majority of lists on Wikipedia, sadly. Richard3120 (talk) 22:38, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 10:00, 11 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep. Valid topic to be split out of world-wide "List of railway stations" or "List of railway stations in South America" which should be considered to exist, or which could naturally be created if they do not. And covering, like almost almost all lists of places such as historic sites, both current and former examples. --Doncram (talk) 16:01, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Of course, the list should list railway stations or systems of them, not cities. Up to just now i think it only seemed to name one railway station having an article, Bogotá La Sabana railway station, but some others are mentioned by name too, and I have just edited the list to make them the items not their cities.  And photos should be added, see the category of railway stations in Columbia at Commons.  I am adding a couple photos, but the list could/should be converted into a table format with one column for images. If there are very few stations known and listed by name (whether as a redlink or not), then it would also be okay to merge this up into a List of railway stations in South America, to be split back out in the future when size justifies. --Doncram (talk) 16:13, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * There are numerous stations which are listed national monuments of Columbia, all of which are individually notable and should be added as redlinks. French-language wikipedia article Liste des monuments nationaux du Norte de Santander itemizes 19 of them, e.g. "Gare ferroviaire de Patillales", listed as a national monument in 1996. The corresponding English-language list, List of National Monuments of Colombia, is not as well laid out and developed, but does show numerous "Estación del ferrocarril" places (which should be redlinks rather than not-links).  These are mostly former railway stations but they are all current historic sites (not destroyed and delisted places). --Doncram (talk) 17:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I can see which way this AfD is going... as it is clearly going to be a keep, I think the list will be far too long to be merged into a list of railway stations in South America, so i think it should stay as just Colombia for now... also bearing in mind that hopefully within five years Bogota will at last have the first line of its proposed metro system, so there will be more stations to be added. Just for your interest, I believe the photo at the top of this webpage is the Patillales station you mention above. Richard3120 (talk) 20:18, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * By the way, I didn't know about the passenger service in Barrancabermeja, as it's only a month old... I'm not sure if it counts as a train, it's literally a bus with the wheels removed and mounted on a railway carriage chassis – you can see it in this video. As far as I can tell, it doesn't run around Barranca (as the locals call it) but between Barranca and Puerto Berrio, a town several kilometers upstream along the Magdalena River. Richard3120 (talk) 20:43, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the interesting info and links. All I was basing my mention of that passenger service is from the Rail transport in Colombia article, which states "...Coopsercol that provides general daily passenger service around Barrancabermeja, and its surroundings (Sogmoso, Garcia Cadena, Puerto Berrio, and Puerto Parra)."  Please do feel free to amend what is presented.
 * As you see, I did add a number more stations, and it is no longer just a list of cities having active stations in 1953. I could start a table to include all the National Monument-listed ones, but few have photos (per the French language list-article anyhow) and I don't know how to get access to listing/nomination documents that might provide a lot of info about each one (which I hope exist, as is the case for U.S. historic places listed on the National Register of Historic Places), so it would be pretty sparse.  But maybe it would be good to get started that way? --Doncram (talk) 23:45, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Go  Phightins  !  11:38, 18 March 2021 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep It doesn't look like a mess to me – I'm quite liking the photos. Whatever its problems, they seem insufficient to justify deletion per WP:IMPERFECT and WP:PRESERVE. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:53, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   18:41, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete No evidence this is a notable topic being tracked by independent sources.Eldumpo (talk) 15:03, 3 April 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.