Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of schools in Geelong


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep --Haemo 00:48, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

List of schools in Geelong

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

List is already covered under List of schools in Victoria. Twenty Years 11:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There is also a history section about mergers of schools in the region that isn't in the main article. I've been intending to expand it when I get the time. It doesn't really belong in a list format, but I'm not sure where else it should go. Cull the list, and create History of Geelong schools or something like it instead? Wongm 12:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions.   -- Twenty Years 11:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep. As legitimate content fork of the Geelong article. The nominator's reasons for deletion are insufficient: just because the schools are listed elsewhere, does not mean a legitimate list containing a subgroup of them cannot also be created. It would be absurd to argue that all the schools in Australia should be merged into a "Schools in Australia" page, and all the state lists deleted. The question is whether the criteria for grouping, in this case their location within the large city of Geelong, is legitimate. I think so. Recurring dreams 12:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment But a category already holds all of that information (here) so why duplicate it, seems a waste to me. Twenty Years 12:42, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. I think the list is actually a more useful grouping: it differentiates between primary and secondary schools, and private and public schools. It also provides a useful link from the education section of the main Geelong page. Recurring dreams 12:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Differentiating between primary and secondary, public and private could also be done via a List of schools in Victoria, it is done on the list of schools in Western Australia. Twenty Years 12:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Yes, I know it can. But we're dealing with two different issues: the grouping of schools by location within Geelong is a legitimate (see first comment). Secondly, the category vs list issue was raised, and then the advantage of the list in differentiating between primary and secondary, public and private becomes clear. Recurring dreams 12:56, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * (reduce indent)Comment by creating an article on the schools of a smallish place like Geelong, you are opening the flood gates to articles from all parts of Australia. Some wiki-analysts would point to the amount of wikiprojects made under WP:AUS, we have Geelong, Townsville etc, and then we get to the point where people make them on topics like Lake MacQuarie (which will eventually be deleted). So why are we allowing this list to sit here when it can easily be accomodated in a larger list. Twenty Years 13:02, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's fair to argue about the merits of this page in comparison to pages that don't exist. If those pages are ever created, you can take them to AFD if you wish. Recurring dreams 13:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * So what makes this page any different to say List of schools in Townsville? I can see one comparison: they both fail notability, and deserve to be deleted. Twenty Years 13:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, great. That's the first reason given for deletion. Why are the not notable? Geelong is a large, geographically distinct locality. Why isn't a list of schools within it notable? Recurring dreams 13:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Geelong is small in relation to Melbourne, and possibly even Victoria. The answer is why duplicate the material, when it can be adequately viewed on the List of schools in Victoria. Twenty Years 13:24, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, we have finally gotten to the crux of it. I think its large and important enough, you don't think it is. It's something of a subjective assessment, so I respect your point of view. I'll be interested to see what others think, and whatever the consensus is, we'll roll with it. Recurring dreams 13:29, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * (reduce indent) Good to see, after a small essay :) Twenty Years 13:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Discussion is always fun and productive :) Recurring dreams 13:34, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT 13:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete. Unencyclopaedic list which seems to be an indiscriminate collection of information. I don't see how this is helps Wik[pedia.  &mdash;Moondyne 13:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per Recurring dreams. A legitimate spun out section of Geelong, Victoria.  A common theme of deletion discussions on schools is to merge content into the article on the locality.  When that locality article gets to a certain size, spinning out the schools section is entirely legitimate.  The list needs working on and perhaps Schools in Tamworth, New South Wales  (another content fork) is a better and more informative format to use but needing work is not a reason to delete. -- Mattinbgn\talk 22:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. Perfectly good list, though could do with a bit of formatting. The deletion arguments are a complete stretch at best. Rebecca 01:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep as a legitimate spinoff from the Geelong article. The list has value in guiding the reader to pages on individual Geelong schools. It's too long to include in the Geelong article directly and would lose any utility in the vast List of schools in Victoria. I appreciate that this may lend itself to Lists of schools in Nowheresville, but Geelong is big enough to justify this list and we can deal with hypothetical pages if and when they are created. As it stands this one is a potentially useful resource for readers of the encyclopedia and should be kept. Euryalus 05:05, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - as suggested by others, I have gone ahead and started reformatting the page using the template Schools in Tamworth, New South Wales. Later tonight I'll do the secondary schools and add enrolment data/references and an expansion of the lead section to be a more detailed history of Geelong schools. The point being to make the page a more useful and encyclopedic fork from the already-long Geelong page, and a guide to readers regarding articles on Geelong schools. I hope this will address some of the notability concerns raised above. Let me know if it still sounds insufficient. Euryalus 06:04, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletions.   -- John Vandenberg 05:36, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep In deletion discussions "usefulness" is usually a poor argument in favor of keeping, but when it comes to any list, usefulness is a strong argument: Wikipedia has lists to both help readers navigate and to understand what is encompassed in the subject. It is either useful to be able to do that or not; and the highest compliment we can pay to a list that does it effectively is that it is useful for this encyclopedia to have it. People will want to compare Geelong schools and even compare Wikipedia articles on Geelong schools. This list is useful, potentially, to Geelong parents wanting to know what neighborhood to raise their children in (quality of the local school is an important consideration), to teachers, students, taxpayers, researchers. If the Geelong schools were merged into a larger list, we'd simply produce headaches for our readers and editors. One last argument: Geelong schools no doubt compete against each other in sports, in academics (spelling bees and similar contests), for funding, for students. Therefore a reader of one article on a Geelong school is likely, at some point, to want to read an article on another Geelong school. That's the Geelong and the Geeshort of it. Well, mostly the Geelong. Noroton 17:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Notability is not a good argument to delete a list: If the list has items that are articles, then the notability adheres to the articles, not the list, which is a Wikipedia creation at least partly made for the Wikipedia purpose of navigation. An indiscriminate list would be one where we can't assign the boundaries. This list is bounded by the geographic extent of Geelong and the definition of "school" -- meet the two definitions and your item is in; don't meet the definition and your item is out. Noroton 17:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Please see: Articles for deletion/List of high schools in Victoria For some reason, the Victoria list hasn't received the same attention from editors that all the other Australian school lists have in these deletion discussions. Please take a look. Noroton 18:20, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, while Geelong isn't Melbourne or Sydney, I dont see how that should have any bearing on its encyclopedic value. Different regions of Australia should be allowed to consume equal space on Wikipedia, as each region can be just as interesting even though it isnt as "busy".  In the case of Geelong, its effective footprint equals that of Melbourne because a large segment of rural Victoria's prefer to send their children to Geelong. John Vandenberg 13:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.