Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of songs about groupies


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Jayjg (talk) 03:13, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

List of songs about groupies

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Unreferenced original research. Subject of dubious notability, hardly considered anywhere in print, inlike, e.g., songs about Elvis. Wikipedia is not a collection of arbitrary information Xuz (talk) 07:07, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. I can't say that the criteria for inclusion in this list are clear to me. I'm not familiar with most of the songs on the list, but the ones that I am familiar with don't seem to warrant inclusion. For example, Bobby Brown's "My Prerogative" doesn't seem to have anything to do with groupies per se, and Eminem's "Stan" is about an obsessive fan, but it seems a stretch to call him a groupie. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 07:24, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - is there really a significant difference between "obsessive fans" and a "groupie"?Lyrical 4Shadow (talk) 04:40, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. I think this article has potential to expand. The original editor certainly has a hip-hop orientation so this list is grossly incomplete.  I was able to add a couple of Beatles items without working too hard.  I am certain there are a few more I can add myself.  What is more perturbing is the short sighted determination that an article has no potential and thus should be deleted.Trackinfo (talk) 07:33, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - thank you for adding new tracks Trackinfo. Yes, i have a hiphop-orientation, but i knew eventually the article will grow into other genres such as the one's you added.  The topic even goes into many public interviews with athletes, actors, politicians (ex: Princess Diana) and even many comic books address the topic of groupies.Lyrical 4Shadow (talk) 04:40, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete and add to List of Wikipedia lists which never should have been created in the first place.  JBsupreme  ( talk ) 13:13, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:41, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:41, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. No clear criterion for inclusion; all content seems to be based on OR and individual opinion. TJRC (talk) 16:04, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. This seems to go over the line of just way too much. WP:NOT. --MrRadioGuy P T C E 16:34, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * A note, in a short period of time, I've been able to add over a dozen entries to this list from completely different genre, with plenty more available. This has got to be a fairly common theme amongst rock stars, writing about what they see before them, a subject that they know and understand better than anybody.Trackinfo (talk) 18:08, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep - Thank you again for adding to the list.Lyrical 4Shadow (talk) 04:40, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Nobody's disputing that there are songs of this theme (some of the ones on the list are questionable though), this issue is whether this is trivia or a notable topic. There are songs about hats and cheese too, but that doesn't mean an encyclopedia should list them.  Without reliable sources, this is pure trivia.  There's always the groupie article, in which any notable examples might be mentioned. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  19:26, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - if the issue of groupies extends publicly into all genres of musics, athlete interviews, actors, politicians (ex: Princess Diana) and even comic books, surely it as justifyable like topics like List of songs about Alabama or List of songs about school?Lyrical 4Shadow (talk) 04:40, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment While I appreciate Trackinfo's efforts to improve this one, there's no sourcing at all. My first thought was that this one was an old article from Wikipedia's "help us reach a million articles" days.  In 2005, sourcing was optional.  In 2010, it's not a good idea to write an article that way. Mandsford (talk) 21:58, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - From a quick skim of others in List of songs about a topic, there ain't seem to be many lists that do have sources. What form of sources would you recommend?  Lyrics Quotes?Lyrical 4Shadow (talk) 04:40, 14 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment - has !voted five times to keep; I've stricken all but the first. TJRC (talk) 05:37, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment sorry, didn't think it was a vote. Just makes the page easier to read. "Remember that the debate is not a vote, ..." (as on the main edit page)Lyrical 4Shadow (talk) 07:06, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete pretty much per nom. I don't really think this topic shows up very often in reliable sources.   Them  From  Space  05:51, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Question might i ask what is a "reliable source" for a list? A sourced paragraph or two about groupies pre-ceding the article?  Almost every hiphop publication from TV to magazinse to websights had an article/show on groupies during the peak of Eminem's song "Stan".  The same would be said with the whole Brittany Spears thing.  Princess Diana, etc..  How would a list like this be sourced?  Pretty much common knowledge.  Skimming the other lists of songs about a topic, and can't figure out what's ain't right with this listLyrical 4Shadow (talk) 07:14, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, there are plenty of sources that one can refer to to back up a list; my personal preference for reliability would be something found on Google books or on the website of a published magazine (such as Rolling Stone). It's possible that it's on something like "The Book of Rock Lists" (don't know if it's there, don't care, just citing an example of a source), or, in the case of an individual song, it's in a discussion of the song (as you've pointed out with Eminem's song Stan, it's been discussed).  It's not quite as difficult as it seems.  Basically, type in "stan + eminem + groupies" and one would see possible sources, or "'She Came in Through the Bathroom Window' + groupies".  In the early days of Wikipedia, the resources we have now for seeing images of books and newspapers weren't there, and Adobe and even high-speed internet weren't that prevalent -- plus, it used to be that Wikipedia's style of sourcing was such a pain in the ass ("retrieved on ____", ISBN No., etc.) that nobody wanted to bother.  Technology has changed, and sourcing isn't so difficult anymore. Mandsford (talk) 21:13, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Clarification - Thank you, but could you clarify? So individual songs should each have references and footnotes?  Eminem's "Stan" would be an easy one, but many are just general songs about groupies.  Recently, Wu-Tang Clan's Method Man has been in the news for shooting a groupie with a BB Gun, but it does not apply to any specific songs by him, is that a reliable reference?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lyrical 4Shadow (talk • contribs) 02:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, individual entries on a list should have a link to a reference of some sort. A sourced article is less likely to get deleted than an unsourced article-- in fact, in the case of a sourced article, the person who nominates one often ends up looking like a fool and gets booed off the stage.  Some might argue that a person could click on the blue link and read the sourcing info, but the information that's there today might be edited away later.  Again, it's not as difficult as it might seem.  For instance, the article on the Beatles' "She Came in Through the Bathroom Window" has a link to back up the statement on that page that Paul McCartney wrote about a groupie who invaded his home (in the manner described in the title)-- Steve Turner, A Hard Day's Write: The Stories Behind Every Beatles Song (Harper Paperbacks, 2005).  It's an easy fix to put that same source into this article.  Basically, it goes back to the idea that if you make a statement, someone will ask the question "Who said that?" Mandsford (talk) 13:54, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the clarification. Lyrical 4Shadow (talk) 14:31, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.