Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of songs containing covert references to real musicians (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. --Core desat  05:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

List of songs containing covert references to real musicians

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

There was an extremely contentious AfD for this article back in December. Harsh words and claims of bad faith flew, the nom withdrew his nomination, and it was tagged for cleanup and verification.

Three months later, however, virtually nothing has been done to clean up this article. Thus I am renominating the article for deletion for the following reasons:


 * Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and Wikipedia is not a directory. Allusions, references, and "namechecks" to other musicians is extremely common in popular music.
 * Tons of original research, speculation, and questionable entries. Examples:
 * "You Can't Always Get What You Want" references Jimi Hendrix? The only sources I can find for this claim on Google are a couple of user-driven "song meanings" type sites, where a couple people speculate that "Mr. Jimmy" in the song may refer to Hendrix. (Instead of, say, Jimmy Miller, who played drums on this track?)
 * "Planet Earth" by Devo references Alice Cooper? Wikipedia is the only place I can find this claim.
 * Of the few that are sourced, many of the sources are just as questionable, or misrepresented.
 * Example: the source for the claim that David Bowie's "The Jean Genie" references Iggy Pop is a blurb from a Bowie fan site, which claims that is was "supposedly" written about Pop, and that Bowie may have said it was about Jean Genet.

A lot of people seem to hold this article dear to them, particularly on WP:ILIKEIT, WP:USEFUL, and WP:NOHARM grounds, as evidenced by the prior AfD, but honestly, due to the indiscriminate and speculative nature of the list, it's not meant for Wikipedia (though I'd fully support transwikiing this article to a more appropriate wiki if one exists), and the fact that this article has still not been cleaned up underscores this. Krimpet (talk/review) 15:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh dear god, DELETE - "Covert references"? That would be a covert reference to original research. Otto4711 18:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Overt Delete. Trivia at its worst, lists like this do WP:NOT belong.   A r k y a n  &#149; (talk) 19:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Where's "How Can You Expect to be Taken Seriously" by Pet Shop Boys? "The Perfect Couple" by Paul Heaton?  "The Joker" by Steve Miller?  "Garden Party" by Rick Nelson?  I'm not voting to delete because of these omissions, though, I'm voting because this doesn't seem to pass WP:NOT and seems likely to be a magnet for contention and OR (without significant encyclopedic value to outweigh those concerns). Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  03:36, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Useless although WP:ILIKEIT. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 20:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, even though I just added "Toad-O Line" by Frank Zappa to the list. ("I Have Been in You" by Sheik Yerbouti is still missing.)  How can anyone qualify that a particular reference in a song is a covert reference to a real musician?  Unless the artists themselves have made a clear declaration of the reference, then it's probably just speculation on someone's part.  Oh, and there are probably hundreds more references in Frank Zappa's music alone.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 20:22, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete Vague, potentially endless, unreferenced. The place for properly referenced material like this is in an article on the song, or on the artists involved. Brianyoumans 20:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per the other delete reasons. Acalamari 22:27, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - this appears to be a mish-mash of non-notable half-truths, OR, and outright falsehoods. Not even remotely encyclopedic.  --Haemo 00:40, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per the last one. JuJube 06:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete indiscriminate collection of information. --Ezeu 04:25, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.