Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of sportspeople who have had microfracture surgery


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was delete. But I'm moving the article out of mainspace to Talk:Microfracture surgery/List of sportspeople who have had microfracture surgery in case anyone wants to use the content.Chaser - T 19:47, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

List of sportspeople who have had microfracture surgery

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Delete - listing people by surgical procedures they have undergone is generally a bad idea. People in general do not gain notability by having had a particular surgery. For a related discussion (about a similar category) see Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_March_19 Otto4711 13:56, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Very strong delete - List of what??? I mean, really, this is taking the idea of "loosely related topics" to an extreme.  How about List of politicians who have recieved flu shots.  Wait, wait, I had better be careful about WP:BEANS ...  A r k y a n  &#149; (talk) 15:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. I created this article as a supplement to the main microfracture surgery article because this is a very high-profile surgery in the sports world.  The surgery is a recent development that is often referred to as "experimental" or "high-risk" in the media, which leads some to question its effectiveness.  I believe the list has value because:
 * it provides an easy way to see what athletes in which sports have had the surgery
 * it provides links to their individual articles so in most cases a reader can see how (or if) their athletic career was affected by the surgery
 * the article is not original research and satisifies WP:A; every single item on the page is cited with a reliable source from a variety of media outlets - a comparison to flu shots or any other trivial medical procedure is invalid
 * the list contains information directly relevant to the main article but is too long to be included there
 * it serves two of the "main purposes" outlined in WP:LIST - it is grouped by theme, and can also be use for navigation for someone researching this topic
 * Given the extensive sports media coverage of this specific surgery and its effects, I simply don't see what policy or guideline the list fails to satisfy. Don't forget WP:PAPER. -Big Smooth 16:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * One other point: I feel this list is more than a directory because it is organized by sport. When a high-profile athlete undergoes this surgery, I believe readers would look for information on the experience of other athletes in the same sport.  For instance, if Kobe Bryant had microfracture surgery, the list would inform many interested readers of other basketball players who have had the surgery and direct them to their article to learn more about their recovery.  The same could be said for David Beckham and soccer, or Peyton Manning and football. -Big Smooth 17:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You're right, Wikipedia is not paper - but it is also not a directory. If any of the examples in your list are somehow particularly important cases to the development of microfracture surgery then they might warrant a mention there.  Also if the surgery had a particularly strong impact on a player's career then it would warrant mention on said athlete's entry.  In spite of assertions that the surgery is "experimental" or in some way controversial (which is close to POV pushing) it is a fairly common procedure, as evidenced by the length of your list.  It may not be a minor, trivial procedure like a flu shot, but it's also not a defining characteristic linking these people.  It's still a loose association.  You make a great argument that the information is useful but usefulness is not a reason for inclusion.  A r k y a n  &#149; (talk) 17:26, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Points well taken, although I'd still argue the link between these people is more than tenuous - it could be argued that it does become a defining characteristic of the player given how often this surgery is mentioned in news stories and broadcasts.  As for the "experimental" assertion, that's not just me, that's major media outlets: see  for an example of it being called "controversial" although this article  specifically points out that with recent successes the "controversy" has all but disappeared. I will agree that the surgery seems to be becoming increasingly common which will decrease the value of this list in the future; if this is a reason for deletion then I can understand that, although I still feel it is valid for inclusion now. -Big Smooth 17:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * As a case in point, consider that the articles of the 18 NBA athletes listed as having undergone the surgery, only 5 mention the microfracture surgery, and only 2 of those mention the impact it may have had on their recovery and career. Please don't get me wrong - the work you put in to making sure the article is properly sourced is fantastic.  It's just that given the paucity of information regarding the surgery on the player articles, it doesn't seem to be that important an aspect in their careers, and doesn't seem to make for a good candidate for a common connection in a list.  A r k y a n  &#149; (talk) 17:58, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete far, far, far too specific. List a few notable ones in the microfracture article, that's more than enough. Guy (Help!) 22:33, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - Way too specific.--Bryson 04:05, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge into Microfracture surgery. These are famous sportspeople and this surgery is significant enough. --FateClub 20:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.