Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of streets and roads in Hong Kong


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was no consensus. Seraphimblade Talk to me 07:11, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

List of streets and roads in Hong Kong

 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Prod contested. This article meets criteria for what Wikipedia is not. Wikipedia is not a directory and should not serve as an index of roads in Hong Kong. Not all roads and streets in Hong Kong are notable. While some roads are notable, the listing of all roads and streets in Hong Kong will spur the eventual growth of non-notable roads. This existence of such a list is hard to maintain. This article can better fulfill its intended goal through the use of a category and merging the remaining useful content into Transport in Hong Kong. Luke! 00:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hong Kong-related deletions.   -- Luke! 00:50, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hong Kong-related deletions.  -- Luke! 00:51, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Rename and de-list Turn this into a coherent article, not just a scattershot list. This stuff could potentially be merged into some existing article as well. SchmuckyTheCat 00:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: It's amazing how many streets and roads in Hong Kong have their own articles already. Realkyhick 01:09, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Delete Wikipedia is not for lists. Change to keep per everyone else who said to keep. Acalamari 02:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * keep This is just as good as any other article in the Category:Lists of roads. No reason to delete this; improve as needed.  Hmains 03:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep This article has the potential to be turned into something useful. HornandsoccerTalk 03:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep and postpone any action, until the WikiProject Hong Kong people can be consulted. I really don't think this article can be considered in isolation from the others that apparently fall within that project, and may have been fostered by the project with goals such as splitting information into multiple pages to unclutter and provide navigation resources.  Without referencing the aims and methods of the project, we shouldn't judge an isolated piece of it.  There are several other articles which could also be judged harshly, in isolation from one another.  Here are a couple:
 * List of Hong Kong-related topics
 * List of airports and heliports in Hong Kong
 * List of buildings, sites and areas in Hong Kong
 * List of areas of Hong Kong
 * It may be that together these effectively enhance the ability of reader to find the information they seek. And that is a valid use of lists in Wikipedia.  Please consider this is much larger than the issue of one article. More background evaluation is needed. Shenme 05:43, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep per Shenme. From WP:LIST, one of the purposes of a list is to be useful for development, and this list can clearly be expandable and also to show which articles do not exist, as well as whether they should be. It is not unmaintable. This is not a directory as much as a list of countries is a directory: it is not a list of loosely assicated topics, or a list for conducting business. –Pomte 06:20, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep per User:Pomte, plus that it is important to differentiate a list from a directory.-- : Raphaelmak : [ talk ] [ contribs ] 06:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Very useful here at Wikiatlas. What, this site is an encyclopedia and not a street directory? Oh, then delete. --Calton | Talk 08:48, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, but a fair few of the streets link to disambig pages. Lugnuts 09:05, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Do the road all pass WP:50k, in that they are ALL meaningful to at least 50,000 people? I doupt it.--Dacium 09:41, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * So 1. Are there more than 140 roads on the list? If yes, just delete some items, but not the whole list, and rename the list into "List of notable streets and roads in Hong Kong". 2. Are there more than 140 articles about roads in Hong Kong? -- : Raphaelmak : [ talk ] [ contribs ] 02:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The Hong Kong article says the 2006 population was 6,864,000. With reference to the WP:50k rule, that'd be a maximum of 137.  Counting just the roads I come up with 242 entries minus 90 redlinks, 152.  Pretty close if you throw out the entries without articles. Shenme 03:10, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep ONLY. If it can be renamed and de-listed. i.e. turned into a coherent article. Tom M. 12:45, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep and cleanup Regan123 13:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOT. I can't imagine any vote to keep here.  This isn't a list of significant or notable roads in HK, it's a list of ALL of them.  That's the dictionary definition of a street directory.  I'm also unimpressed at the assertions that this article "could" become useful or that it is a temporary holding page for the HK Wikiproject.  This article was created fifteen months ago, and before a flurry in March there'd been few substantive edits for half a year.  Plainly the HK Wikiproject isn't as invested in it as all of that.   RGTraynor  14:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and RGTraynor. Like RGTraynor, I am confused to see any votes for keep here at all. Some have argued above about the useufulness of this article, but usefulness is not an inclusion criteria. Dr bab 01:15, 7 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Comment Well, I know this more of what WP:ATA mentions as 'bad' to say in arguments, but to avoid some parochialism simply because it is Hong Kong, please compare to New York City. In that area there are a web of interlinked articles and categories - here are 'some' of them:
 * Transportation in New York City, Category:Transportation in New York City, Bridges and tunnels in New York City, Category:Bridges in New York City, Category:Tunnels in New York City, Expressways in New York City, Category:Buildings and structures in New York City, Category:Transportation in New York City, Category:Streets in New York City, Category:Streets in the Bronx, Category:Streets in Brooklyn, Category:Streets in Manhattan, Category:Streets in Queens, Category:Grand Street (New York City), Category:Fifth Avenue (Manhattan), Category:Streets and squares in New York City, Category:Railroad terminals in New York City, Railroad terminals in New York City, List of streetcar lines in the Bronx, Category:Bus stations in New York City
 * What is the difference in the implementation of the Hong Kong-related set, apparently patterned much like previous projects, that upsets people? I suppose some didn't realize that at 6.8M people the Hong Kong population is certainly of the same magnitude as New York City at 8.1M people.  And I haven't looked at places like London. (hmm, peeking I see Tunnels underneath the River Thames)
 * I believe several people simply don't like 'lists', and so want to vote delete here. As I've said above, I think that properly used lists and categories can serve as navigation aids and therefore are useful. (And usefulness is a valid consideration, otherwise you would want to swear off things like WP:ANI and other shortcuts).  Please do not single out one article because you dislike the idea of lists.  Would converting to a more category heavy mix be better?
 * So what I'd like to hear is, what is a useful direction to suggest for this information? Remembering of course that that same suggestion could (should?) be applied to New York City and every other project like this.   Shenme 03:45, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment on the analogy of the above articles,and the general way decisions are going, the solution is a category, which will include all the streets and roads notable enough to warrant separate articles. There are a small number of tunnels under the Thames, or bridges in NYC, and the history of them as a general topic is therefore notable--and books have been written bout just such topics.  DGG 07:25, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: I agree that a category would be a better solution. Then all lists that are noteable enough to have their own article would be included, and debates on inclusion and deletion could more easily be handled separately. Dr bab 11:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Keep -- It could be argued that most lists on Wikipedia amount to directory entries; if it were only notable streets, it could be from a directory of notable streets in Hong Kong. There are loads of such lists, a lot of big cities have them for streets, subway stations, skyscrapers, etc, and valid arguments have been made for their usefulness. Until there's a more general discussion on whether all of these do or don't belong on Wikipedia, I don't think targeting one city is appropriate. bobanny 16:12, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - Wikipedia is not a directory or a bunch of mismatched information. This list only promotes the creation of small street stubs (which deserve to be deleted too) which will probably never get beyond being a stub. If I made an article List of streets in New Zealand, it would be deleted & all its articles deleted too. Other than the main streets, all should go (perhaps rename the article to List of main streets in Hong Kong). Overall delete, but if someone can suggest a better idea, please do so... Spawn Man 05:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.