Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of surviving veterans of the Spanish Civil War (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.

The parallel discussions of Articles for deletion/List of surviving veterans of the Spanish Civil War (2nd nomination), Articles for deletion/List of notable surviving veterans of World War II (2nd nomination), and Articles for deletion/List of living actors from the Golden Age of Hollywood concern similar articles and cover essentially the same ground, so in closing this discussion I have taken into account all three discussions, as well as previous AfDs.

The count of !votes has been rendered useless by, if not exactly canvassing, an influx of a large number of editors who are clearly not very familiar with either our inclusion guidelines or the deletion policy. However, while the delete side generally put forth a consistent and policy-based argument---that a list that by definition will be empty in X years cannot be encyclopaedic---the case for keeping the articles is significantly undermined by a reliance on assertions that the topic is interesting, harmless, or some other argument conventionally considered invalid at AfD.

With a few exceptions, those in favour of keep failed to either refute the argument for deletion, or put forward their own policy-based reason for keeping the article. On that basis, I see a clear consensus to delete all three lists. –&#8239;Joe (talk) 07:55, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

List of surviving veterans of the Spanish Civil War
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log )

Same reason as List of notable surviving World War 2 veterans— notability is not temporary, this list will be pointless in 10 years. Dronebogus (talk) 16:48, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 17:37, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Spain-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 17:37, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 17:37, 6 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep If we delete every article that's on here because people find it interesting, we'd lose a third of Wikipedia. This article hurts no one. Bkatcher (talk) 00:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I said “it’s interesting” wasn’t a valid argument to keep something, not that it was my reasoning for deleting something. And if you’re going to argue about something trivial I said you should do it on the page it’s actually written on. Dronebogus (talk) 00:21, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep List of video games notable for negative reception is an actual list. Honestly your a bit short-sighted there are tons of list on Wikipedia that probably should be deleted for your exact reasoning but you seem to have some kind of agenda with list dealing with surviving of a certain area, oldest living, etc. They are still relevant as long as you can have current content. --Tommieboi (talk) 01:51, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * No, I explained my reasoning: it is an actual part of the GNG that notability isn’t temporary. If an article is about a topic that literally will not exist within the foreseeable future then it fails the GNG on that basis! Additionally why the Spanish Civil War of all conflicts? Why is it so outstandingly important out of all the conflicts of the same era to get a whole article on this trivial subject, especially when pretty much all the individuals listed are not in and of themselves notable? Dronebogus (talk) 01:55, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete completely pointless diminishing list, people get old and die, what is the encyclopedic value in this, other than that some old veterans get their names in Wikipedia? Mztourist (talk) 02:52, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:V. Most of the veterans on this list don't have Wikipedia pages. Many are missing important identifying information like birth dates. I'm sure they are (or were) veterans, but we have no way of knowing that they're alive, and it's unreasonable to assume that their deaths would be widely publicized. Also fails WP:NOTTEMPORARY, WP:BLP, WP:NOR, ... pburka (talk) 03:30, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep If the list will be pointless in 10 years then delete it in 10 years. In the meantime, it seems reasonably detailed, notable and useful so what's the rush? Andrew🐉(talk) 08:16, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * What about it is notable and useful? Mztourist (talk) 10:19, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:NOTTEMPORARY and I do not believe has a strong case for meeting WP:GNG nor WP:LISTN. A quick look at the article's talk page demonstrates the massive WP:V issues inherent with this topic especially in regards to WP:BLP (I don't think it is the job of editors to determine whether or not someone is alive). In 5-10 years (or less) this list will be completely empty which tells you everything you need to know. Vladimir.copic (talk) 23:30, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Vladimir.copic (talk) 23:53, 7 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep As per List of surviving World War I veterans, inherently notable. When the last veteran dies it will be redirected as was WWI and all other lists of last survivors. DerbyCountyinNZ  (Talk Contribs) 00:06, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not sure how this squares with WP:NOTTEMPORARY. How about an eventual move to List of former surviving veterans of the Spanish Civil War? Vladimir.copic (talk) 00:16, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep as per Andrew and DerbyCountyinNZ. Thescrubbythug (talk) 17:44, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. I urge everyone here to examine this article's talk page to see first-hand the BLP and verifiability problems of this page. These veterans are obscure private individuals and names are being removed on the advice of family members. pburka (talk) 17:59, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Per Tommieboi. 172.58.110.212 (talk) 20:40, 8 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep There is nothing wrong with any of these types of lists: Category:Last living survivors. Deleting something because it may be blank in the future, is not a valid reason for deletion.  When the last survivors of any war do die, they will get mention for this in newspapers.   D r e a m Focus  01:23, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * That category is for individuals who became notable for being the last of their respective groups, or lists of individuals who became such. Not for a hundred random people who were among the last surviving members of a group at an arbitrary point. Dronebogus (talk) 01:40, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep important list, which will shrink to zero anyhow within the next years.Nillurcheier (talk) 07:54, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
 * What is important about it? As it will shrink to zero, what is the point? Mztourist (talk) 12:48, 9 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep per Tommieboi. ArvindPalaskar (talk) 05:15, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOTTEMPORARY, as a trivial cross-categorisation ("living people" and "Spanish civil war veterans") WP:NOTDIRECTORY; and as ultimately redundant to List of people of the Spanish Civil War. In addition to the massive issue of WP:V and WP:LISTN (editors thinking that something is "interesting" or "important" is not a good argument if they can't back it up with reliable sources which say the same thing). RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 20:42, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete in its current form. WP:NOTTEMPORARY covers that approach. The way to record the (by our criteria) actually permanently notable members of this group is by selecting out the last survivors within particular subsets, as has been done at List of last surviving veterans of World War II. I suggest transforming or excerpting the article into that kind of shape; the current version is a no-go. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 01:48, 13 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per pburka. Agree with Elmidae about a better model for a list with similar material. We could draftify the list with the intention of reformatting it after the design at List of last surviving veterans of World War II.4meter4 (talk) 04:21, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per pburka. QubeCube (talk) 13:21, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete, as per pburka. MrsSnoozyTurtle 06:28, 19 September 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.