Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of tallest buildings and structures in Dublin


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Missvain (talk) 00:46, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

List of tallest buildings and structures in Dublin

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails applicable notability (and content) criteria. In terms of WP:SIGCOV and WP:LISTN, and per the very recent/related outcome of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tallest buildings and structures in Derry, there are few to no sources which discuss the members of this list together. The very few sources that do discuss some of the list members as a group (like this or this, clearly state that Dublin is not known for its tall buildings. Stating that "Dublin isn't known for its towering skyscrapers" and "In the 1960s, we built two tall buildings – both of which, by today’s standards, are hardly classifiable as skyscrapers [..] Since then, typical 'tall' commercial buildings built in and around Dublin were no more than six to eight storeys in height". In terms of the content itself (and WP:CFORK and related guidelines), *all* of the members of this list (and the content/tables/etc alongside the list members) is/are covered elsewhere. Including at List of tallest buildings in Ireland. Which seems to be where effectively all the material content (and sources) here seem to be "copied" from. I propose redirection. But it doesn't seem like a plausible or necessary redirect. Guliolopez (talk) 14:17, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. Guliolopez (talk) 14:19, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Guliolopez (talk) 14:19, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Guliolopez (talk) 14:19, 14 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment Completely incorrect points, Dublin has since built multiple tall buildings since 2000 as seen in the current article we are discussing. Article is notable as tallest buildings in Ireland is a poorly kept up to date article plus almost every capital city on the planet has such an article on tallest buildings and structures. One of the most common google search query's for Dublin specifically is its tallest building which wikipedia currently fails to answer well. Also the Derry article was deleted way too early as it like this current Dublin article is not yet complete. This Dublin article will also cover past and future developments of the city, there are multiple 100m plus buildings proposed for the city for instance (can also be seen there are more in Dublin's planning application portal https://www.dublincity.ie/residential/planning/planning-applications and the cited article does not cover these. Most notably the article of tallest buildings and structures in the relatively nearby city of Belfast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_Belfast which is the template for how this article will develop in future. Note the buildings and structures are of a similar height. It would be nice to be able to finish an article before it was fully reviewed for instance I'm still going through the process of adding references...
 * Regarding the other article I used it as a skeleton for this one however I found incorrect info on it and have made edits on it accordingly...I intend this article to be much more fleshed out and in detail, and there are enough buildings and structures above threshold heights to warrant a separate article in itself, unlike the previous article about Derry. I would have added all of this into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin, but the article would have been too long for a normal readers attention and too awkward for someone looking for the specific information.
 * list of tallest buildings in Ireland also fails to rank the churches as buildings, as other tallest building articles do for other major cities.


 * I have now updated the article further with lists of unbuilt and proposed buildings of significant height, this proposal wrongly highlights a lack of references there are now currently 34. These lists are more up to date than any on the Ireland article and there are more buildings to add. The user who made the complaint also deleted titles of tables I was about to create and has incorrectly interfered in the creation of the article, with likely a political bias against the building of tall structures in Dublin. I still cannot see how multiple 200m plus structures are not significant.

Another page for proof of concept is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_Edinburgh which has even fewer High rise Buildings than Dublin also note this article has not been deleted despite the existence of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures_in_Scotland — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petaaa95 (talk • contribs) 16:26, 14 December 2020 (UTC) I also noticed this user has made numerous unwarranted deletions on the tallest buildings and structures in Ireland list, well cited lists of future and past proposals and has a large personal investment in it, sadly I think this undermines any argument they make due to inherent bias and I propose they should be banned form contributing to either any of the pages linked due to this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petaaa95 (talk • contribs) 16:16, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petaaa95 (talk • contribs) 14:27, 14 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment. Hiya . If the "tallest buildings in Ireland [list] is poorly kept" (and I would argue that it is not), then the solution is to improve it. Not to create a CFORK of it. If the intent of "This Dublin article [is to] also cover [..] future developments of the city", then I do not understand how that will sit with the WP:VER and WP:NOTCRYSTAL guidelines. (In particular I would note that, if we're going use that Emporis.com list of potential/future developments as a source, then I would note that effectively every member of it describes a cancelled project. To the extent that, if we had created an article/content using it as a source, then all that content would be invalid. There is no reason to have an article listing every developer's notional pipe dream. Per the WP:CRYSTAL guidelines). In terms of the "every other capital city has such a list" argument, I would note that, not only is that an "other stuff exists" argument (generally to be avoided in AfD discussions), but it's also not true. There is a List of tallest buildings in Switzerland article (but none for List of tallest buildings in Bern/Zurich). Same is true for Greece (and Athens) or Iceland (Reykjavík) or Austria (Vienna) etc. The need or relevance of each article is taken on its own merits. We don't need a List of tallest buildings in Oslo article. When the same content is covered in List of tallest buildings in Denmark. We also don't need one for Dublin. (FYI. I note with some interest your unfounded suggestion that I have some form of unspecified "bias". And "should be banned form contributing to any of these pages". While I will resist the urge to comment on that for now, I draw your kind attention please to WP:AGF and WP:NPA. And the possibility of a WP:BOOMERANG). Guliolopez (talk) 16:25, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Emporis is the biggest database for buildings in the world and takes all heights from the planning applications themselves and are only incorrect when plans get amended. It is the best source available regarding building and structure heights. Anyone involved in planning and development knows this.

Its not a copy and paste from emporis, some of it is sourced from emporis the rest I'm adding directly from the planning applications themselves, this article is still a work in progress, also most other lists of this nature use them as a primary source. Anyone involved in planning knows its the most reliable database available.
 * Comment - as with the Derry list, the biggest issue here is notability. Are there reliable sources covering this topic significantly? At the moment, this article is almost entirely a violation of WP:NOTMIRROR as it's largely a copy and paste from the user-generated database Emporis. Spiderone  16:06, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Also adding other sources for each building if not tonight, tomorrow, this deletion thread should never have been made (but for someone with a large personal investment in a linked article) for a relevant article which is newly created. For instance what is the point in editing in Wikipedia if an article cannot be improved rather than deleting relevant information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petaaa95 (talk • contribs) 16:59, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If the article is not ready to be posted to the main space, you are generally encouraged to use WP:DRAFT. Spiderone  17:08, 14 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose Leeds has a page, Bristol has a page and Dublin is bigger than either Leeds or Bristol so I fail to see any consistency in the deletion criteria proposed here. Give the editor a chance, the page is brand new and all of the elements are clearly not in place yet because it is a work in progress. Wikimucker (talk) 18:21, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * This is a WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument Spiderone  18:38, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * This is a very good time for you to go off and tackle Leeds and Bristol you mean. Let the user finish their article before we prematurely judge it.
 * I am particularly interested in their ability to gather unbuilt Celtic Tiger ephemera of which there is rather a lot, sadly mostly unwikied until now.  Wikimucker (talk) 18:59, 14 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Draftify - if the creator believes that they can find sources to justify this list then I'm happy for it be sent to draft and to go through WP:AfC. At the moment, it completely fails WP:LISTN and WP:GNG and is a violation of WP:NOTMIRROR. There may be a weak argument that it has a navigational purpose under WP:LISTPURP at best. Spiderone  19:32, 14 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep but modify Many of the buildings included on the list are notable enough to have their own articles. Keep the list article, but only include buildings that are notable to have their own articles. Sneakerheadguy (talk) 21:27, 14 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep - I was able to find sources commenting on tall buildings in Dublin.
 * I'm sure there are more, but the two sources above should be enough to establish notability. Tall buildings are apparently rare in Dublin, which makes the existence of tall buildings at all, in such a large city, even more remarkable. Edge3 (talk) 03:25, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there are more, but the two sources above should be enough to establish notability. Tall buildings are apparently rare in Dublin, which makes the existence of tall buildings at all, in such a large city, even more remarkable. Edge3 (talk) 03:25, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there are more, but the two sources above should be enough to establish notability. Tall buildings are apparently rare in Dublin, which makes the existence of tall buildings at all, in such a large city, even more remarkable. Edge3 (talk) 03:25, 15 December 2020 (UTC)


 * KEEP: naturally meets SIGCOV and the NCTEST The Ace in Spades (talk) 12:24, 15 December 2020 (UTC) — The Ace in Spades (talk • contribs) is a confirmed sock puppet of Waskerton (talk • contribs).
 * Keep Dublin is an important city and most of the names on this list satisfy the criteria mentioned on WP:LISTN. desmay (talk) 15:47, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per above discussion. There's whole books and articles written about Dublin's skyline and how it's changed over the years. Frankly, I was surprised how many tall(ish) and colorful buildings were in Dublin in 2017 when I visited, since all the old family photos, postcards, stamps, TV shows, and films that I'd seen showed a flat and grey city. Today's Dublin has an actual skyline. FWIW, I'm technically an Irish citizen born abroad. Bearian (talk) 22:17, 15 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep - Notwithstanding the issues there have been with maintaining these pages for Guliolopez I believe this seems to meet just about every criteria for being a wp page. I'll have a review of it in detail in the next few days to make sure everything is above board anyway. Detail on this page being set up is contained on a message board Skyscrapercity if anyone wants to contribute there. Financefactz (talk) 10:44, 16 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep - this list is accurate and the reasons given for the proposed deletion are somewhat confused. Sarah777 (talk) 22:58, 18 December 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.