Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of television programmes broadcast by TVB (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Will nominated individually for a fair discussion‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. (non-admin closure)  // Timothy :: talk  16:41, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

List of television programmes broadcast by TVB
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Fails WP:NLIST, WP:NOTDIRECTORY. WP:LISTCRITERIA, "Simple listings without contextual information showing encyclopedic merit.", "Criteria for inclusion should factor in encyclopedic and topical relevance, not just verifiable existence."

Article is a giant directory of programs. Most of it is either unsourced or wikilinked to other articles that have info on the show but nothing about it being broadcast on the channel other than it was on the channel, this info is normally unsourced.

The main article already has a list of notable original programing. See TVB. Nothing properly sourced to merge.

There are also individual articles for the programing info for each year, plus bonus articles just for dramas, again one article per year.


 * All series by year


 * Dramass by year
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The just to keep track of all the lists there also is:
 * Template:List of TVB dramas (not part of AfD, will send to TfD after this closes).
 * Template:List of TVB dramas (not part of AfD, will send to TfD after this closes).

Summary:
 * Articles fails NLIST, no sources showing the entries for a subject (eg:List of TVB dramas in 2018) have been discussed as a group by independent reliable sources.
 * Articles fail NOTDIRECTORY, WWIN, Wikipedia is not an electronic programming guide.

I'm hoping against precedent that a group nom can clean this up, Wikipedia is not a historical programming directory for television channels.  // Timothy :: talk  23:20, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television, Lists,  and Hong Kong. Shellwood (talk) 23:59, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: List of TVB dramas in 2024 does not currently exist in mainspace; it briefly did, but was quickly sent to draftspace and has since been declined twice at AfC. As it is a draft it, as with the template, should not be directly part of this nomination, but it is again a pending AfC submission and any reviewer there may need to take this nomination of many similar articles into account. No opinion at this time on any of the other lists.  WC  Quidditch  ☎   ✎  00:23, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep: This kind of list is common on Wikipedia: see List of programs broadcast by Disney Channel, List of television programmes broadcast by the BBC, List of programs broadcast by CBS and many, many more. In fact, there are 485 other lists in Category:Lists of television series by network. I know that arguments based on WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS should be avoided, but in this case so much other stuff exists that it appears to be simply common practice for a network to have an article like this. Furthermore, citing WP:NOTDIRECTORY is a misunderstanding of the policy. Item #5, aka WP:NOTTVGUIDE, says that an article shouldn't list upcoming events, but "historically significant program lists and schedules may be acceptable." Toughpigs (talk) 00:33, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with Toughpigs, TVB dramas in Hong Kong programmes broadcast does existed but it released the number of TVB drama episode into other TVB drama episode released as well. The certain person who trying to create this page with complaining about not a historical programming directory for television channels basically it was invalid and I already checked revision background on the certain person was created by Tuesday October 1, 2019 who don't understand what the TVB broadcast is about. Personally I oppose the article of deletion with nomination and I am not trying to persuade here but certain person who is the one to cause persuade and destructive plan with polticial stance as for no reason so that's why the certain person need to deserved for WP:BREAK aka quit raging. Cool90630 (talk) 06:16, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: TV guides don't get a special exception from notability guidelines. NLIST and NOTDIRECTORY exist for a reason. Wikipedia deletes this type of article often when it breaks NOTDIRECTORY, and has no sourcing showing an article meets NLIST, here are recent examples:
 * Articles for deletion/List of programmes broadcast by CITV
 * Articles for deletion/List of programs broadcast by Sportsnet 360
 * Articles for deletion/List of programs previously broadcast by CT
 * Articles for deletion/List of programmes broadcast by Green Entertainment
 * Articles for deletion/List of programmes broadcast by TV9 (Malaysia)
 * Articles for deletion/List of programs previously broadcast by Intercontinental Broadcasting Corporation
 *  // Timothy :: talk  06:33, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Notability, which says, "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list." I will show below that "TVB series" has been treated as "a group or set by independent reliable sources".  Summary of sources  TVB series have been covered in several academic sources and numerous media sources. The academic sources discuss the shows in the context of TVB's history. The media sources discuss the shows in the context of the highest rated, the lowest rated, the "most classic", and the "best". Sources   The article notes: "In the early years, HK-TVB's Jade channel (the Chinese language service) broadcast only three locally-produced programs. Much of the remaining airtime was filled by foreign series, such as Doctor Kildare, I Spy, The Lucy Show, and Bonanza (Hong Kong Television Weekly 17-18). The station also showed early Mandarin and Cantonese pictures, such as The Revenge, Truth and False Husband (Chao-zhou-dialect pictures), Cool Chau Mei, andWonderful Princess (Hong Kong Television Weekly 14). In this, HK-TVB's initial programming strategy was no different from that of Rediffusion Cable. In 1968, however, HK-TVB produced its first drama series, A Dream Is a Dream, shown in 15-minute segments once every week." The article notes: "Gradually, more locally produced series gained popularity. Here is the list of the HK-TVB's top ten programs in November 1970: (1) Enjoy Yourself Tonight; (2) It Takes a Thief; (3) Tarzan; (4) Kao's Club; (5) Japanese Story; (6) Sharp's Club; (7) Night of Sharp; (8) Viceroy's On Life; (9) News and Weather Report; (10) The Fugitive. Of this list, half were imports (numbers 2, 3, 5, 7, and 10). On the other hand, the list also shows that locally produced series increasingly were favored by local audiences." The article notes: "In 1973, HK-TVB's new head of programming, Leong Suk-yi, produced the comedy series Seventy-Three, made up of 30-minute episodes shown once every week (30 episodes in all). Audiences welcomed the series for its refreshing satirical approach to social problems. It even garnered more viewers than Enjoy Yourself Tonight and became the territory's top rated program. The breakthrough achieved by Seventy-Three paved the way for series like Crossroad and CID (both 1976), Wonderfun (1977) and Seven Women; all were dramatic anthology series shot on film." The article notes: "In July 1978, the prime time program schedules of HK-TVB and CTV were as follows:" The article notes: "The dramatic mini-series that became most popular was HK-TVB's 1976 production Hotel. ... HK-TVB followed this success with the 1977 production A House is Not a Home."  The thesis notes: "Background information of the selected five cases". The thesis discusses five TVB shows: "Program for Case Study 1 - Enjoy Yourself Tonight", "Program for Case Study 2 - Cantopop at 50", "Program for Case Study 3 - Movie Buff Championship", "Program for Case Study 4 - Am I Healthy?", and "Program for Case Study 5 - Be My Guest".  The article notes: "For example, Kok-Leung Kuk, one of the executive directors of TVB martial arts classics including The Legend of the Condor Heroes《射鵰英雄傳》(1983), The Return of the Condor Heroes《神鵰俠侶》(1983) and The Duke of Mount Deer《鹿鼎記》(1984), co-directed a Mainland version" The article notes: "TVB started collaborating with Youku in 2013, airing its dramas on China’s leading online video and streaming service platforms. One such drama, Line Walker 《使徒行者》, recorded a total of 2.4 billion views in 2014. These drama serials provided higher production budgets to TVB, supposedly raising the production quality. Legal Mavericks 《踩過界》 (or 《盲俠大律師》 in the Mainland), the first co-produced title with iQiyi that premiered in June 2017, successfully accumulated total streaming views of over 500 million in Mainland China. Another co-production, Line Walker: The Prelude 《使徒行者2》, a crime-thriller drama serial, also reached remarkable total streaming views of over 2 billion on Tencent’s platform in Mainland China." The article notes: "Whether history will repeat itself or not is too early to tell, but, for example, in 2018, three of the five TVB serial dramas that recorded the lowest viewership ratings were co-productions: Another Era 《再創世紀》, Infernal Affairs 《無間道》, and The Great Adventurer Wesley 《冒險王衛斯理》 (“The Five TVB Dramas With Lowest Viewership Ratings,” 2019)."  The article lists the TVB series The Great Adventurer Wesley, Succession War, Infernal Affairs, Another Era, and Stealing Seconds.  The article notes: "Just as that period of time is considered the golden age of Hong Kong when its economy took off, it was arguably the best time for quality programmes at TVB. Dragon, Tiger and Leopard was an innovative crime drama series ... Another drama series, The Northern Stars, for a time, made being a social worker almost hip. Then came Gan Kwok-leung, arguably the best scriptwriter TVB ever had. He penned The Wrong Couples and No Biz Like Showbiz which restored the art of the dramatic dialogue that is hard to imagine for a TVB programme today." <li> The article lists Forensic Heroes S4, Can't Buy Me Love, Triumph In The Skies 2, No Regrets, Forensic Heroes S3, Airport Strikers, Inbound Troubles, The Mysteries of Love, Story of Yanxi Palace, and Witness Insecurity.</li> <li> The article discusses 13 TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses 15 TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses 10 TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses 10 TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses 10 TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses 10 TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses several TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses 10 TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses 10 TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses 10 TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses 30 TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses several TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses five TVB series.</li> <li> The article discusses eight TVB series.</li> </ol>  WP:NOTTVGUIDE  WP:NOTTVGUIDE says: "Electronic program guides. An article on a broadcaster should not list upcoming events, current promotions, current schedules, format clocks, etc., although mention of major events, promotions or historically significant program lists and schedules may be acceptable.'" These articles do not contain "upcoming events, current promotions, current schedules, format clocks". They contain "historically significant program lists and schedules" as shown through the coverage in academic and media sources.  "Simple listings"  WP:NOTDIRECTORY says: "Simple listings without contextual information showing encyclopedic merit. Listings such as the white or yellow pages should not be replicated. See WP:LISTCRITERIA for more information." WP:LISTCRITERIA says: " (also known as or ) should be unambiguous, objective, and supported by reliable sources." The membership criteria of these lists is "unambiguous" and "objective" as membership is based on which TVB dramas were broadcast. The membership criteria is "supported by reliable sources" because TVB series have been discussed in academic and media sources. WP:LISTCRITERIA further says, "As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a directory, repository of links, or means of promotion, and should not contain indiscriminate lists, only certain types of lists should be exhaustive. Criteria for inclusion should factor in encyclopedic and topical relevance, not just verifiable existence." A topic that has been covered by academic and media sources meets the "encyclopedic and topical relevance" requirement.  Multi-page list articles  Stand-alone lists links to Naming conventions (lists), which discusses the conventions for "splitting a long list into multiple sub-articles". The long list here is "List of TVB series", while the sub-articles are "List of TVB dramas in 2022", "List of TVB dramas in 2023", etc. The guideline gives the example, "For example, TV show season lists are named in the form " Show title (season 1)", although the present guideline would have preferred " Show title : season 1" (the use of colons in the titles of works to indicate a subtitle, as in Star Trek: The Next Generation, is a likely reason for this variance)." The split by year is similar here. The split by year is a valid spinout to ensure the main list does not get too long. General notability guideline There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow the subject to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 11:04, 27 January 2024 (UTC)</li></ul>


 * Comment: I vote to keep the TVB dramas article back in and I do agree with Cunard and vote no on tha article of deletion nomination and I do not see the problem. The certain person of October 2019 user need to stop incriminate with nomination for example in the past and look the title topic "Lots of deletions related to NOTDIR"; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=787047417#Lots_of_deletions_related_to_NOTDIR. I recommended to make speedy keep all, speedy close with closing all article of deletion nomination discussion. When the certain person is semi-retired "this user is no longer very active on Wikipedia" by using WP:BREAK already as now it means stop editing on Wikipedia and I do not see the certain person is taking semi-retired plan when the certain person is not taking a WP:BREAK for semi-retired then don't marked as semi-retired. If the certain person is already marked on semi-retired plan "user is no longer very active on Wikipedia" which means stop create edits without doing anything for search and change edits on Wikipedia.
 * Reply I'm very active on AfD, other areas not very much at all = semi retired.  // Timothy :: talk  17:06, 27 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Comment: Looks like I should have nom'd them individually, I have no objection to the group nom being closed so I can nom them individually. No way these pass NLIST, and do meet WWIN NOTDIRECTORY.  // Timothy :: talk  16:39, 27 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.