Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was KEEP, as no longer a collection of external links. -- Jonel | Speak 23:42, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

List of temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
List of nothing more than URLs to external LDS pages StoatBringer 23:53, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, and I'd like to note that this list is simply copied from DrIdiot 23:57, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree - needs to be deleted, unless value is created in some other way.
 * Value has been created. Keep -Visorstuff 00:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete, WP:NOT a list of external links. --Last Malthusian 00:17, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Abstain, Article is no longer a list of external links. --Last Malthusian 14:38, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I added the page because I found articles for Bern Switzerland Temple, Chicago Illinois Temple, Freiberg Germany Temple, Kona Hawaii Temple, Laie Hawaii Temple and about 8 others. There are basically a smattering of random articles on about 10 of the 120 operating temples out there, and no comprehensive List Of article anywhere.  I initially made the article to be a list of the temples that could link to other Wikipedia articles, but saw that with just a little effort I could make external links to the LDS pages.  Please don't interpret it as a dump of an LDS page, it is meant to be a foundation for a Wikipedia article that links to richer Wiki articles on each temple.  It needs to be expanded.  I think that the external links add value, but agree that at the core the page needs to point to Wikipedia articles.  Maybe a table with the external link and with the Wiki link.  I haven't done tables though, I spent an hour on it as it was, and I thought that it could be done later.  If you delete this, I think that this article will eventually be created. Bhludzin 04:15, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * OK so convert those which do have articles into internal links or I will vote to delete. -- RHaworth 06:15, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Bhludzin, I believe Categories are better for this. JoaoRicardotalk 17:42, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * There is already a category: Category:Latter Day Saint temples. But a category can not list the temples, including those without an article, in chronological order and include the foundation date for each. u p p l a n d 18:14, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. It is a legitimate topic for a list, and the chronological order makes it useful in a way that a category couldn't be, but is now a directory of external links, which (as already pointed out) is something Wikipedia pages are not supposed to be. Keep, but only if the items are all turned into internal wikilinks, provided there is enough to write an article about the temple, or just unlinked but with some data in the list itself, whenever too little can be said about the temple in question. Making it into a table may be a good idea. u p p l a n d 08:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC) No reservations anymore. u p p l a n d 18:14, 7 January 2006 (UTC) Moving my keep vote to beginning of line to make it clearly visible. u p p l a n d 00:04, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * So is this vote actually a delete, assuming this isn't done before the AfD period is up? --Last Malthusian 09:52, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming the author will clean up the list before the end of the AfD period. u p p l a n d 12:19, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Cleanup ; keep, but needs to be wikilinked. now that it is more wikilinks than external. &mdash;akghetto talk 10:45, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, and DrIdiot who has the stronger argument: this article appears to be a copyright violation, as it is copied from an external website: .  You can't just cut and paste material from other web-sites into Wikipedia!!!  Also, I doubt Wikipedia should be a repository of directories.  We wouldn't want to see a list of all the Walmart stores on here (temples to consumerism), or a list of all gyms (temples to fitness), or a list of all the streets of the world (the paths to all temples).  But links to websites that provide them would be more appropriate, if in context for the article(s) those links appear in.  Provide a link to the external site that presents the list in question, and remove the list itself from Wikipedia.  Go for it! 12:07, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think a simple list like this can be copyrightable. There is also an obvious difference between important religious sanctuaries and Walmart stores. As far as I understand, only the most central Mormon sanctuaries are called "temples", which is why there is in many cases only one in each country. u p p l a n d 12:19, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Facts are not copyrightable. Additionally, the organization has subtle but significant differences to the presentation on the cited page. Trödel&#149; talk 11:23, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * OK - I updated the page so that it's a table with the Wiki links and I added the Temple's current status. As a future update I want to add the construction style/type as a column.  If this is acceptable, please remove the AfD status.  If not, let me know why. Bhludzin 16:47, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Question is this list comparable to a list of Christian Churches, or more akin to a list of Christian Cathedrals? I ask cos I seem to think that lists of churches are discouraged unless the church itself is notable for something or another. Jcuk 17:24, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * This would be more akin to a list of cathedrals than a List of Ottawa churches. There are about 145 LDS temples currently operating or announced; this list up for deletion is missing the newest to be announced.  I didn't count, but there is roughly the same number as on the List of Buddhist temples article.  Val42 17:37, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * There are a number of notable stories for each temple, which make it more than just a list of buildings. There are the stories of miraculous events at the dedication of the Kirtland, Nauvoo and Salt Lake temples, Wilford Woodruff said he met with the signers of the Declaration of Independence in one, Lorenzo Snow said he met the Savior in another, plus probably thousands of journal accounts from less prominent people - I am assuming that there will eventually be Wikipedia articles for all of the temples listed.  Bhludzin 18:25, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I was answering the question as to scope; roughly how common temples are. Hopefully, there will be enough information about each of the temples, in the future.  But for this vote, we will have to consider the fifteen articles about temples that already exist. Val42 18:36, 7 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep with requested clean-ups. I think that people will want information on LDS temples, in chronological order.  If this list isn't kept, then (as unothodox as this may be on Wikipedia) I think that a single link to one or two such a lists should be included on the Category:Latter Day Saint temples page. Val42 17:37, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect into Temple (Mormonism). JonMoore 19:06, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete it seems to almost be an external link list only.The Scurvy Eye 20:14, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as listcruft. Too many redlinks. Stifle 23:56, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Redlinks should not be a reason for deletion - they should be welcomed as guidelines for future article writers. Turnstep 01:00, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. Interesting, verified list with a chronology (and red links) which discounts use of a simple category. Turnstep 01:00, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * All right, I removed all red links, and added square feet. I want to keep the official LDS links because they link to the church page with the current temple hours, phone number, etc.  I want to add architectural style as a column in the table, but please give me a break!  I have frantically spent about 5 or 6 hours on this page in the last day trying to keep it from being deleted.  Please spare it so that I can have a break and come back and do the architectural style information in several days (I do have a life outside of this).  I also intend to start doing Wikipedia temple pages, where I can add Mormon historical events relevant to each temple (unless of course I have to frantically fight to keep each one from being deleted).  This will also clean up some of the temple red links in the Mormonism articles in general.Bhludzin 02:02, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Despite the re-formatting, still mostly just a list of external links. -  brenneman (t) (c)  03:46, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I want to do the Temple articles. I think it seems natural to have a list that indexes and links to them.  But, (correct me if I'm wrong) if the list includes external links then the list must be deleted?  The external links supplement the list with "live" information.  If this is the approach taken, then after I did articles on all 120+ temples, I would be allowed to create the list to link to them?  Bhludzin 04:16, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * KEEP but Merge with some material from Temple (Mormonism) about temple construction and history into either article. WBardwin 06:26, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. This is a useful list with the dates and other stats. I was just wondering if there was a list for this; it's much more useful than categories, and it can be a complete list, unlike many that we maintain. Merging with the general article on Mormon temples would overwhelm that article, which is meant to describe temples for the entire movement as opposed to a list of buildings for the LDS Church in particular. Cool Hand  Luke  08:47, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. I removed the "list of links" nature of this page - and updated the table in a few other ways. I also added wikisectioning so that individual rows with specific temple information can be individually edited and directly linked. I suggest that these changes address the concerns of the nom. Agree with Cool Hand re merging with general temples page - additional useful columns could be added such as number of Ordination rooms, number of Sealing rooms, existence of visitors center, existence of Holy of Holies, etc. Trödel&#149; talk 10:55, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * keep seems a reasonable enough list now I know what it is. Jcuk 12:00, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * keep Useful reference for those interested in such stuff. Needs to be improved to meet Wiki standards. Dr U 07:59, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * keep Seems valuable and useful. Tom Haws 18:39, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Vote summary as of 17:24, 9 January 2006 (UTC), Delete 5, Keep 10, Abstain 1, Merge/Move 1


 * Keep - My vote was not counted Bhludzin 18:53, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep. This version looks like an informative list, and with noteworthy content per Val42's comments. By the way, there is no need to count votes. HollyAm 01:21, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there anyone who can close this discussion and remove this from AfD status? I can't because I created the article, and StoatBringer hasn't responded to a request to do so.  Bhludzin 04:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * AfD discussions generally last 5 days if they aren't closed speedily, which means this will probably be closed either today or tomorrow. Generally even an overwhelming 'keep' consensus doesn't lead to a speedy keep on its own, and this discussion is only 63% for keep. --Malthusian (talk) 09:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.