Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of tornadoes striking downtown areas of large cities


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. postdlf (talk) 18:23, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

List of tornadoes striking downtown areas of large cities

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This really should have been two sentences in tornado, maybe three for a prominent example but instead it's an original research festival of monumental proportions, with a variety of tags which already tell the passing reader that it's trash. Here's the problem in a nutshell: it's belaboring a "myth" which it doesn't disprove, because the whole idea is rather vague in the first place. What exactly does "downtown" mean here? Presumably the idea behind the myth is that lots of really tall buildings or something like that disrupt the airflow or something like that. But I'm betting people's idea there is Manhattan, New York, not Manhattan, Kansas, the latter having been hit numerous times. Even Topeka might not meet people's implicit standards. Meanwhile the extensive list has numerous verification problems, not the least of which are that (a) it's unclear which of these entered the central business district of a city, and (b) whether that area was "sufficiently" built up to fit into the myth in the first place (what's "large"?). One prominent example (e.g. the 1953 Waco tornado) is enough. Mangoe (talk) 13:09, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete Certainly an unnecessary list, which sets itself the brief of only "downtown" parts of cities, which is not properly defined, and this is all subject to someone's opinion as to what qualifies, so a lot of OR. Why wasn't this spotted sooner?  Rcsprinter123    (banter)  19:19, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.   CAPTAIN RAJU  (✉)   20:50, 21 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep - The topic is one of scholarly interest, see THIS piece from Scientific American. This is a well-documented almanac-style compilation of incidents — perhaps not complete but solid "work in progress" at a minimum. The term "downtown" needs better definition, but that is an editing problem, not a basic question of WP inclusion in this case. Carrite (talk) 17:10, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
 * As I said, the notion should be mentioned in the main article. The list is a problem because, on two dimensions, it is ill-defined. "Downtown of a large city" is is vague, and while there are a few clear-cut cases, most everything else is arguable. Mangoe (talk) 03:45, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:14, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Environment-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:14, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete -- unclear criteria for inclusion; "downtown of a large city" is very vague. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:38, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades Godric  04:25, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment, where is the wikiarticle on "List of tornadoes striking downtown areas of not so large cities" or "List of tornadoes striking outside downtown areas of large cities"? Coolabahapple (talk) 08:29, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep for reasons mostly along the same line as Carrite's. Ks0stm  (T•C•G•E) 09:31, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep it seems difficult to define but the editors have done an excellent job. What would be easy to define, but perhaps far too long a list as there is a natural affinity between them: Tornados that hit trailer parks Legacypac (talk) 16:38, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep per Carrite. Per the Scientific American article cited above there is scientific interest in whether tornadoes are somehow repelled from builtup areas of large cities.Also Prof Ted Fujita himself per Chicago Magazine has discussed the "heat island" theory of downtowns repelling tornadoes. USA Today discussed tornadoes hitting large cities. NOAA has its own list of tornadoes hitting large cities, supporting the appropriateness of this list. The article's long edit history and talk page show that editors have been willing to prune entries which miss the stated criteria  of "downtown" and cities over 50,000, so qualifying and referencing entries is not an insurmountable problem. It seems an appropriate almanac function of Wikipedia. Edison (talk) 20:46, 29 May 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.