Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of toys in the Demonic Toys films


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep - Merging remains an editorial possibility, and perhaps likely given the discussion here. Wily D 08:13, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

List of toys in the Demonic Toys films

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Zero sources. Zero out-of-universe notability. Does not meet any notability guideline that I know about. Delete. Guillaume2303 (talk) 16:49, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 17:18, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 17:18, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 17:18, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Northamerica1000(talk) 10:16, 23 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Comment – The series of Demonic Toys films are notable (Demonic Toys, Dollman vs. Demonic Toys, Puppet Master vs Demonic Toys, Demonic Toys 2), and this is a very reasonable content fork of these four articles. The rationale to retain this article is based upon WP:PRESERVE, a subsection of Wikipedia's Editing policy. Outright deletion is unnecessary, and simply reduces the overall available information to the public about the films. This article would benefit from the addition of inline citations for verification using reliable sources. Northamerica1000(talk) 09:30, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep per Northamerica1000... a reasonable spinout-article that avoid idle repetitions about characters-features in all the articles related to this franchise.Cavarrone (talk) 11:46, 23 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment – Also, the following articles, all of which are currently up for deletion, could be merged into List of toys in the Demonic Toys films, to consolidate all of the verifiable information in one place:
 * Baby Oopsie Daisy (Demonic Toys)
 * Grizzly Teddy (Demonic Toys)
 * Jack Attack (Demonic Toys)
 * Mr. Static (Demonic Toys)
 * Zombietoid (Demonic Toys)
 * — Northamerica1000(talk) 23:43, 23 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment I see two problems with the above "keep" !votes: 1/ Neither the articles on the individual characters, nor the list article, nor the articles on the Demonic Toys movies have a single reliable source (Demonic Toys 2 is the only article with references - to trailers and blogs). Hence, there is no verifiable information that can be merged. 2/ While fictional characters like Darth Vader have obvious out-of-universe notability, there is no evidence at all that any of the Demonic Toys characters have any out-of-universe notability. I don't see any reason why we need separate articles on them, or even a single list article on them, as brief plot synopses are sufficient for the individual films. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 09:26, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Despite the series of articles about these films is unsourced or poorly sourced, we are required to judge notability not on the basis of the sources currently named in an article but only on the basis of the existence of these sources, and these films are indeed notable (ie see and ). No-one here is claiming an out-of-universe notability for these characters, we are substaining a legitimate spinout of contents that otherwise would be merged multiple times into the film articles with obvious reps, as the main characters are basically the same for all the franchise-series. If separate articles for all these characters are inappropriate, a list of the characters that recur in a series of five notable films is IMHO an appropriate editorial convenience for WP. It could me maybe merged into a future parent article about the whole franchise, ie. Demonic Toys (film series).Cavarrone (talk) 09:58, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not contesting the notability of the individual movies at all. However, I do contest the existence of any sources about the characters. I don't really think that "He makes a loud scream and his weapon of choice is his machete" is valuable encyclopedic knowledge. Creating an article about the series (if there exist sources about the series) could perhaps be a way to get to a more substantial article that at least looks a little bit encyclopedic. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 11:00, 24 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep List articles for notable series exist to list the characters within. Been like that forever, and its fine.  Helps you understand why the series was successful.   D r e a m Focus  22:49, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * And you would base this list on which reliable sources? --Guillaume2303 (talk) 08:08, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It should seem that such a list article would be based upon the same citations which source the film articles.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 08:24, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Which at this point is exactly zero references... There's probably something out there about the movies, but I doubt that would contain enough info to source a list on these characters. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 08:41, 25 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Weak / Temporary Keep: the individual articles are likely to be merged here, and it would be fair to give them time to be improved under the new format. Perhaps there's a chance that someone will verify the notability of these characters in aggregate, as seen in WP:LISTN. Shooterwalker (talk) 16:16, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep and merge the individual articles into here. I agree that individual articles are probably not justifiable, but having a combination article like this is a reasonable solution, widely adopted in similar cases.  DGG ( talk ) 04:33, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Note to closing admin Please note that there are no sources about these characters. At this point, even the articles about the movies themselves are unsourced, although sources for those probably do exist. --Guillaume2303 (talk) 06:34, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:LISTN. This appears to be a non-notable list of non-notable characters in what may even be a series of non-notable works. (Has anyone come up with some citations in these movies to help them meet WP:MOVIE?) This list has not shown the notability of these fictional toys/characters as a group. Notability needs to be established for the group through WP:GNG, perhaps by exploring any awards or discussions of the special effects utilized in the movies these characters come from. Without additional information, this list just appears to be a complete exposition of all possible details and a summary-only descriptions of works. We need more than a recap of what these characters did in the movie to justify a stand-alone list.--Joshuaism (talk) 16:30, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per Joshuaism. Also, as pointed out, neither this list, nor any of the main articles for the individual movies, have any reliable sources.  There needs to be something in order to justify these characters being notable enough to have their own split page separate from the film's articles, and there just isn't anything.  Rorshacma (talk) 17:36, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

 
 * Either keep or merge to Demonic Toys. A list of characters with short descriptions is perfectly okay (and encouraged) per WP:WAF, the question here is whether this list is allowed as a WP:SPINOUT. I think it is because of the size of the franchise, even if notability of the chracters as a group remains questionable. However, I also wouldn't mind if the character list is merged back into the main franchise article. It largely depends on if the other characters' articles are merged here ( => keep the list standalone as a spinout for size), or get deleted ( => merge the list into main article for shortness). – sgeureka t•c 09:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete --Niemti (talk) 18:11, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:35, 9 July 2012 (UTC)




 * Merge to Demonic Toys – Struck my initial keep !vote above. The Demonic Toys article isn't prohibitively long, and merging the information there would expand and provide better context in the Demonic Toys article. Northamerica1000(talk) 18:24, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge to Demonic Toys per NA1000's re-vote. Always interested in building a consensus. Merging is the best way to preserve the content and hold it to a lower set of article guidelines. No prejudice against re-splitting once sufficient sources are found to meet WP:LISTN. (note: crossed out my !keep vote above.) Shooterwalker (talk) 23:17, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Merge looks good here, basically for the reasons given by the above two comments. Doesn't seem to have generated enough coverage to be worthy of a separate article at this stage, but given that Demonic Toys is a fairly short article with no content on characters at all summarising the information there would provide a net improvement on the status quo. Alzarian16 (talk) 15:03, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.