Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of train surfing injuries and deaths


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. We still don't agree, as a project, about what kind of lists we want to keep or to delete.  Sandstein  09:03, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

List of train surfing injuries and deaths

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The list, just like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of accidental electric shocks on railways in Romania is the essence of triviality, and a clear violation of NOT INDISCRIMINATE. The individual events, do not belong in an encyclopedia. If we include this, it would make just as much sense to include lists of everyone who died in any sort of transport related accident.

But the introduction, which discusses numbers for the general phenomenon, could be added to Train surfing. (it also show the worthlessness of the individual listing--it reports 100s a year, but there are many fewer than that listed, just the few that happened to be individually reported & easily findable in online sources.  DGG ( talk ) 06:28, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Health and fitness-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 07:56, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 07:56, 24 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep A well-sourced list with a clear scope, and an international viewpoint which is hard to find elsewhere.
 * WP:OSE nominations based on other articles carry no weight about this article. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:44, 24 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete/merge Lots of people die in atypical ways. They make the news when they're gruesome and idiotic. But that doesn't mean we need to attempt to catalogue them all. Very easy to summarize, provide an international viewpoint, and just give examples in the main article without indiscriminately pretending we are EVERYTHING. Reywas92Talk 19:30, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep It has sources, its notable enough to get ample coverage in reliable sources, just like the other articles of this type listed at Category:Lists of people by cause of death and elsewhere, its a fine part of this encyclopedia and should be kept.  D r e a m Focus  19:40, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE and WP:NOTNEWS. We simply do not require a list of every single fatality ever known, particularly as pretty much every entry on this list is non-notable and unnamed individuals, to provide a synthesis on train surfing risks. Ajf773 (talk) 22:16, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration.  D r e a m Focus  05:10, 25 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete. Very indiscriminate, full of original research. Wikisaurus (talk) 10:17, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but where is the WP:OR in this? How is it 'indiscriminate'? Andy Dingley (talk) 10:21, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * There is nothing linking all this incidents and no interest in reliable sources to connect them, so it is an indiscriminate collection of random news. Moreover, there are probably thousands of train surfing incidents, so to create a list of reasonable length one should somehow limit the scope, and as there is no indication how to do it and users do it by themselves, we have original reaserch. Wikisaurus (talk) 10:42, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * From LISTN: "The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been. " Just go to the first para and there's an article on train surfing in Australia and the problems there, as an overall problem. We do not need a specific source which say that "There are railways in Brazil too and amazingly enough falling off a train in Brazil is just as dangerous as falling off a train in Australia is". This is BLUESKY: it's reasonable to look for sources from the national bodies which manage rail safety of national railways, but the similarities from country to country are so self-evident that there's little reason for the UIC to start making international lists as well.
 * Nor do we even need such a source: the emphasis on groups in LISTN is primarily there for the case when individual entries cannot demonstrate WP:N, whereas these are already well sourced as individuals.
 * "there are probably thousands of train surfing incidents" is a vague handwave about the wrong topic. This is not about train surfing, it's about cases where that leads to death, or at least serious injury (and these are all already WP:N incidents). If you want to delete List of train surfing incidents, then you're making the wrong argument at the wrong place. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:19, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep a well sourced list that passes WP:LISTN criteria Lightburst (talk) 02:11, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buidhe 00:45, 3 March 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per and . Well-sourced article that passes WP:GNG and WP:LISTN. — Hunter Kahn 19:05, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   19:51, 10 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.