Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre (3rd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep. There are some editors suggested for a merge - so that can be discussed in the article's talk page since deletion is obviously not preferred. However keep in mind that the main article has 68,545 bytes while the list of victims is nearly 40 k long, so article length and size may be an issue. -- JForget 23:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre
AfDs for this article: 
 * – (View AfD) (View log)

Was previously nominated the day after the massacre and was kept quite convincingly – but there was a lot of emotion imho.

I am proposing to delete this list based on several issues I have with it. Firstly is notability. I do know that among the people on this list there are some notable individuals, such as Liviu Librescu and Seung-Hui Cho, however the majority of them are only collectively notable (as was noted in the previous AfD closing comments) and I believe this issue is addressed in the main article under Virginia Tech massacre, Virginia Tech massacre and Virginia Tech massacre fine. I also want to mention one of the main guidelines (I am aware that it is not policy) at WP:LIST. It says that Lists can be used as a table of contents. Consensus has said that the majority of the people listed on this page do not need their own articles and therefore I do not see a need for this article, as the existing category covers the more notable victims adequately.

I also have concerns in regards to WP:NOT and agree with this discussion, but these are not my reasoning for bringing it here. ..... Todd #661 04:20, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep I would be hesitant to remove this because it has been very well sourced and, for research purposes, very informative/encylopedic. Fosnez 05:11, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Research? What is there to research in a list of names? --Agamemnon2 16:59, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Keep I read WP:NOT to mean no writing about "departed friends and relatives". Its not a place to write about your nan or mum. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 05:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. For one thing, we obviously can't have individual articles for each person. This is a rather tidy way to keep everything contained, though there might be an argument for merging into Virginia Tech massacre (the length and completeness of the list weighs against that, though). humblefool&reg; 07:07, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge - Into whichever page is appropriate. WP:IS NOT A MEMORIAL; the individuals are not notable on their own. There's a lot of emotion going around, but just because you delete an article about them, doesn't mean you're deleting the victims. Let's be rational, they're NN for wikipedia (Apart from the ones the nom mentioned), and should be merged. Spawn Man 11:39, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep Sure, not every individual on the list is notable enough to have an article. But the group as a whole is notable enough. Lists can be used as "tables of contents" linking to other articles, but they can also perfectly well have entries that don't have (or can't have) an existing article. That's one of the main advantages of lists over categories. --Itub 13:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Strong keep. The group itself is collectively notable, and a merge with Virginia Tech massacre would result in an overlong article. Rob T Firefly 15:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep - well-sourced etc. May serve later purposes.  Onnaghar  talk ! ctrb 16:11, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep- well referenced from reliable sources. This is not trivia. J Milburn 16:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOT . We do not need a list of these unfortunate victims any more than a list of everyone killed in a plane crash or a fire. The shooting, fire, or plane crash may have been significant and notable, but the random victims generally are not. Wrong place, wrong time. Edison 05:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge with page on Virginia Tech massacre. Or make it a link on that page.  The names are important and, though the list is not complete, it does provide further information regarding the event.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.34.136.250 (talk) 09:46, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, factual, verifiable list of the worst school shooting in American history. People will be interested in this encyclopdic content.  Sincerely, --  Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles  Tally-ho! 17:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete I don't see how this list improves the encyclopedia at all. It appears to serve no purpose other than to memorialize the victims.  Nonverifiable means to skip it, but that does not imply that verifiability is sufficient to keep. Matchups 17:11, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep The problem with a category is that it was decided that most of the individual victims--did not merit separate articles. And the ones that do are having the articles continually challenged. The present article here is minimal attention, and the attempt to delete it represents a viewpoint I neither share nor understand. It's not reasonable to press what is a not-complete consensus as far as possible--group projects require compromise. DGG (talk) 00:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I am definately not trying to impress a view on anyone. I am merely presenting it. You have admitted that most of the individual victims do not merit individual articles - why? because they are not notable enough. A perfectly valid delete reason. The reason that others have stated for keeping the article because it is the worst one in America is not good enough because there is no way we need a list of victims of the Tenerife disaster (the worst plane crash), September 11 victims or Port Arthur victims (the worst shooting in Australia). ..... Todd #661 07:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, I think there is no consensus to keep as DGG suggested. It is currently 11 keeps/7(merge/delete). To me that says that there is no consensus to do anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Todd661 (talk • contribs) 07:51, 27 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Sadly, Merge to most appropriate - The event was notable, and on WP that is not inherited. If someone read a list of names to you, would you be able to say "Oh, yeah thoes are the people that died in XXXXX" ? no, because it was the event that they were involved in that was notable. Sorry but WP:NOT Exit2DOS2000   •T•C•  02:23, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge with Virginia Tech massacre per above. --Ixfd64 05:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep this article is factual and referenced, content is not a memorial.  ALKIVAR &trade; &#x2622; 02:12, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep, better a list than individual articles on all of the victims. Besides, it is verifiable and NPOV. --Eastlaw 00:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.