Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of wars involving Belarus


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sarahj2107 (talk) 10:21, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

List of wars involving Belarus

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Simply put, Belarus was never involved in any wars. This list goes to 14th century or so, but it makes about as much sense as adding let's say some medieval European wars to the list of American wars (because some descendants of people who lived in those countries eventually became American). There was no independent Belarusian country till the breakup of the USSR. There was some fighting in the time of the Russian Civil War/Polish Soviet War involving Belarussian SSR, but it was not independent state - it was part of USSR. Ditto for any WWII. Anyway, there is also the matter of fact that this article is and likely will remain unreferenced, as no serious scholarly sources will talk of "wars involving Belarus". Again, there were none. Nor were there any Belarusian uprisings, insurgents, any sort of Belarusian military before 1993. Without them, there can be no participation in any military conflict. PS. I am not denying that traces of Belarus culture can stretch centuries back, but simply put - no country, no political organization even - not a belligerent in any conflict. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 14:47, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The Grand Duchy of Lithuania is the predecessor of Belarus. The main area of the state extended mainly in the areas of today's Belarus and the population consisted primarily of Belarusians. Also Old Belarusian language was the official language of the country. Just because the state did not bear the designation "Belarus" it does not mean that it should not be added to the list. The List of wars involving Ukraine does also list the conflicts of the Kievan Rus'. The article entry states that this is a list of military conflicts in which Belarusian military forces participated, not conflicts where a Belarusian state participated. During the Second World War there were pronounced Belarusian military forces such as the 1st Belorussian Front or the Byelorussian Home Defence.--Der Rationalist (talk) 15:57, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:22, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:22, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:22, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Belarus-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:22, 19 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete -- as original research and unclear criteria for inclusion, i.e. should Grand Duchy of Lithuania be included or not? In another example, the list contains "Uprising of the Belarusian Black Cats". The so-called "uprising" maybe involved a group that may or may have not existed. Lastly, the article also contains 1st Belorussian Front, 2nd, 3rd as combatants, while these were designations only, i.e. the "Western Front" was not made out of "Westerners". :-) K.e.coffman (talk) 02:06, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have removed the "Uprising of the Belarusian Black Cats". However there are conflicts such as the Slutsk Defence Action that cleary occured.--Der Rationalist (talk) 16:25, 20 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete per K.e.coffman. This article is an unhistorical fantasy. As noted, the various "Belorussian Fronts" were simply the designations used by Red Army army group-level commands based on the regions in which they were operating in. There's a long history of such names being used - eg, the British Army of the Rhine wasn't made up of Germans serving with the British, and the Nazi German Army Group South Ukraine wasn't made up of Ukrainians. Nick-D (talk) 06:02, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * But the Byelorussian Home Defence was made up of Belarusians. Therefore it was a Belarusian military force.--Der Rationalist (talk) 16:25, 20 August 2016 (UTC)


 * DElete or prune. Belarus is a relatively new polity.  Boundaries between Russian, Polish and Lithuanian territory have fluctuated, so that it is hard to tell what side the present republic was on.  The final column is this WP:OR since it assumes that Belarus was on one side or the other, when in fact its territory was being fought over.  It might be possible to prune this into Medieval wars within the present Belarus.  Peterkingiron (talk) 18:45, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete – Makes no sense indeed. — JFG talk 02:51, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment. I have reviewed links provided by Der Rationalist, and there may be a single conflict which can be attributed to Belarusian state as a proper faction, i.e. the Slutsk Defence Action, in which the Belarusian People's Republic fought (in fact, the Slutks "action", or better to say, conflict, was a part of a larger struggle that does not even have a parent Wikipedia article, see also Belarusian_People's_Republic and Stanisław_Bułak-Bałachowicz). There is however the question of whether a list can be composed of a single entry (even if it could be expanded to one parent entry, i.e. conflict name, and its battle-level entries, like the Slutsk one). . --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 06:14, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Clearly, no. K.e.coffman (talk) 06:37, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * A one-item list may be a mathematically valid list but not a wikipedically valid list. The conflict you discovered may well deserve a page, though. — JFG talk 09:18, 22 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Further comment -- If (as some have suggested) the basis of this list is the wars of the Medieval Lithuania, the appropriate course would be a redirect to a list on that or to rename and repurpose the article as relating to that state. However, I would point out that I used to see an Atlas that called this area of USSR "White Russia", which I understand to be a translation of Belarus.  Peterkingiron (talk) 10:00, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Could you please tell me why the Battles of the Kievan Rus' are listed in the List of wars involving Ukraine, but the Battles of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania can not be added to this article?--Der Rationalist (talk) 13:08, 26 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.