Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of worst mass murderers and spree killers


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Keep - renaming to List of mass murderers and spree killers by number of victims has addressed the WP:NPOV concerns. nancy (talk) 11:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

List of worst mass murderers and spree killers

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Listcruft, mostly duplicative of List_of_serial_killers_by_number_of_victims. We also have List of events named massacres. So we have detailed coverage of this topic already. John Nagle (talk) 01:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete as redundant to the nom's provided articles. Also "worst" is too vague. I can't find sources that describes a Top 20 list and Top 25 list for the mass killings and disgruntled employees part in Google Books, Google and Google Scholar so it is safe to assume that this is Original research-- Lenticel ( talk ) 02:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - the concept of such a list serves a useful article navigation purpose but List of serial killers by number of victims is more comprehensive and avoids the subjectivity of "worst" (from whose point of view? The victims?). The disgruntled employees categorization is also a little subjective - it assumes that the murders of work colleagures directly arose from disgruntlement with work. Euryalus (talk) 04:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - the significant expansion of the article has addressed what I perceived as the subjective element of the article and the reformatting has enhanced its usefulness as a navigation tool. The difference between this and the serial killers list has been also explained - I think it's original research to allocate such definitive motives to serial killers versus mass murderers, but the differentiation by time (mass murders within short time frame, serial killings over longer period) seems a reasonable divider. For these reasons I've stricken my earlier comments. Euryalus (talk) 01:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. Intractably POV and OR.  Of the (arguably) thousands of ~ over the centuries, who is responsible for categorizing and choosing the "worst" of the bunch?  FBI?  Interpol?  The History Channel?  --T-dot ( Talk/ contribs ) 15:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)TC)
 * Delete. It's very redundant, and original research. RobJ1981 (talk) 22:38, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep  The criteria are different. I see zero duplication with List_of_serial_killers_by_number_of_victims and very little with List of massacres  How can it be said to be duplicative? Has no one above actually compared the articles? Which ones do you find to duplicate?  DGG (talk) 08:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep per DGG, although I would replace the somewhat subjective word 'worst' in the title. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
 * yes, certainly--and the sections of the article should be considered for further explanation and sourcing and even a possible split--there is a good deal of editing to be done. It's a fairly messy article as it stands. DGG (talk) 03:11, 9 June 2008 (UTC)


 * A word from the author:
 * First: This list is no duplicate of the List_of_serial_killers_by_number_of_victims, they are not even overlapping. Mass Murderer and Serial Killer are by no means the same. Overlaps with the List of events named massacres are also very rare.
 * Second: This list is a work in progress. Nothing is finalized, yet. So if you are complaining about the sloppy title, it will certainly be changed. And the tag "disgruntled" was only chosen, because this is very commonly used in the media to describe people killing their co-workers. If I knew beforehand that articles can become subjects to deletion way before they are finished, I would've chosen my words more carefully from the beginning.
 * Third: There are extensive lists of mass murderers in the Mass Murder and School shooting articles, which I find very distractive and annoying. The main intention of this list was, to externalize those within these articles; at least before everything grew out of proportions.
 * Fourth: This is no Original research, which Wikipedia describes as following: This includes unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position. None of the above applys to this list. (Lord Gøn (talk) 19:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC))


 * Just to help me (and others) vote, could someone explain the difference between the following three articles:
 * List of mass murderers and spree killers by number of victims (this one)
 * List of serial killers by number of victims
 * Most prolific murderers by number of victims Enoktalk 00:24, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The first list is about mass murderers and  spree killers, which means people who kill a lot of others in a rather short period of time (minutes, hours, days), be it at one or several locations. The second is about  serial killers, which are people who also kill a lot of people, but with a lot of time between the murders (weeks, months or years). The motivations of mass murderers and serial killers are completely different. While the common mass murderer and spree killer has accumulated a lot of hatered towards the world and seeks mostly revenge, the typical serial killer derives sexual pleasure from torturing and killing or simply likes to dominate and subdue his victims. The third one mixes them both, is overall quite pointless and should be merged with whatever it fits. (Lord Gøn (talk) 00:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC))
 * Keep. Article is in severe need of renaming ("worst"? wth?) but constitutes a set of information distinct from the massacres and serial killers ones.  Ford MF (talk) 21:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.