Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lists of UK locations with large ethnic minority populations


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. While WP:OR is a strong argument, the discussion has addressed various ways in which any OR problems can be addressed editorially without having to delete the whole article.  Sandstein  07:14, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Lists of UK locations with large ethnic minority populations ‎
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This article suffers from problems of original research and synthesis. Since official UK national statistics data on ethnicity isn't detailed enough to allow us to know the number of people of, say, Polish ethnicity (see Classification of ethnicity in the United Kingdom), the article instead draws together data from a number of sources. We have no idea whether these sources all use the same definitions and combining them therefore constitutes original research and systhesis. Moreover, the question of what constitutes "large" and an ethnic minority are also not based on a reliable source. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:55, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions.  —Cordless Larry (talk) 11:59, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions.  —Cordless Larry (talk) 11:59, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see the problems with WP:SYN that the nominator sees. The sources are not being used to formulate any novel arguments. Catfish Jim   &#38; the soapdish  14:04, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Take a look at the Italian communities section as an example. There are six cities listed. Each is of these is referenced with a different source. Some sources, such as this, are for the number of Italian-born people (i.e. regardless of ethnicity), whereas others such as this state the number of people of Italian origin (i.e. regardless of country of birth). So these figure are not comparable, yet they are being used as sources for a single concept - the Italian ethnic minority population. The fact that different sources are being used suggests that the criterion for listing a city is whether statistics are available. If there was a single source for the cities with the largest Italian populations, then the list might be viable, but as it stands this is just a mish-mash of figures with no clear defintions. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:28, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep. I agree that some of the statistics are questionable, but others are from the Office of National Statistics which is about as authoritative as you can get. Statistics such as Italian communities can arguably be deleted or explained in context, but that's a content debate, not a deletion debate. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 18:06, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Some of the statistics are indeed from the ONS. But as I point out above, these are on country of birth, not ethnicity. The ONS does not publish ethnicity data as detailed as the categories in this article. A list of locations with large foreign-born populations could be based on the ONS data, but not one on ethnic minorities. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:21, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, if anything it's the other way round. I quite easily found census information on ethnic background such as this page (admittedly on the London health authority area rather than Greater London), but all the data on country of origin comes from other sources. At the most, this is an argument for removing the categories that relate to country of origin (and even then, it would probably make sense to move that to another article based on nationality). Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 23:16, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, ethnicity data is available for groups such as Black British, Asian British etc., so we could restrict the article to that. However, we'd still have the problem of defining "large", and because the data is broken down by authority, it might take a lot of work to go through and find which ones have the largest minority populations. Cordless Larry (talk) 23:26, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * For that matter, "location" isn't defined either. Is a location a settlement, a local authority, a parish? And given that these locations are likely to vary in size, is large defined in absolute or percentage terms? Cordless Larry (talk) 23:48, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:IINFO and WP:LSC for having a non-specific inclusion criteria. A "large and/or significant" population is not objectively defined. Further, I agree with Cordless Larry above that the numbers being used in this list are not comparable due the the variety of source definitions being referenced.  Jim Miller  See me 21:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 03:21, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep I contributed a great amount of valuable information to this article, I agree that it is a bad idea to mix sources as it means comparing populations can be difficult. I therefore propose that such sections as 'Italian communities' which have varied sources should be removed however groups such as Indians, Pakistanis and Ghanaians be kept due to the figures being comparable and from one source. Stevvvv4444 (talk) 18:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I could agree with keeping groups that are detailed in ONS statistics, which includes Indians and Pakistanis, but Ghanaians are not one of those groups. The available data source for Ghanaians is different to that for Indians and Pakistanis. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.