Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Litespeed


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. bd2412 T 12:11, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Litespeed

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Can't find any WP:RS which even come close to meeting WP:CORPDEPTH. Just a lot of passing mentions and unreliable sources such as blog posts. Most of the editing on this article has been done by two WP:SPAs, so I'm assuming there's WP:COI problems there. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:33, 14 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Easy Keep. There are plenty of articles about Litespeed and its bikes in all the main bicycle publications and others that have nothing to do with bicycles:
 * Bicycling - Bike Gear Hall of Fame, October 2011 Merlin and Litespeed Bikes, 1986 (available online)
 * Bicycling - New High-End Road and Tri Bikes, September 2010 Litespeed Xicon (available online)
 * Bicycling - 2016 Buyer's Guide: The Super-Light Titanium Litespeed T1sl, March 2016 (available online)
 * Bicycling - Litespeed’s Newest Gravel Bike Does It All, May 2017 (available online)
 * Bike Rumor - Factory Tour: Litespeed Celebrates 30 years of cutting edge titanium bicycle by Zach Overholt, February 2016 (available online)
 * Cycling Weekly - Icons of cycling: Litespeed Vortex by Simon Smythe, February 13, 2017 (available online)
 * VeloNews - After a two-year hiatus, Litespeed’s TT bike is back and looks sharper than ever By Robbie Stout, March 13, 2009 (available online)
 * FinancesOnline - The World’s 10 Most Expensive Bikes: Cycling With Style #9 Litespeed Blade, March 21, 2016 (available online)
 * Times Free Press - American Bicycle Group rides into future, Litespeed, Quintana Roo maker shifts to Chattanooga location by Mike Pare, August 28th, 2016 (available online)
 * to list just the first ones I found. -AndrewDressel (talk) 19:50, 14 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Most of those are just routine announcements of specific products. That's not what WP:CORPDEPTH is looking for.  Of the list above, the one that looks most useful as a source is Icons of cycling: Litespeed Vortex.  But, it fails WP:AUD, specifically, media of limited interest and circulation; Cycling Weekly is only of interest to the cycling community.  That's what limited interest means.


 * I disagree with your assertion that "Bike Gear Hall of Fame", "Litespeed Celebrates 30 years of cutting edge titanium bicycle", "Icons of cycling: Litespeed Vortex", or "American Bicycle Group rides into future..." are "just routine announcements". None of these fall in the list of "trivial coverage" given in WP:CORPDEPTH. So, let's go through them one-by-one to see just how many really are "just routine announcements of specific products".
 * Bicycling - Bike Gear Hall of Fame, October 2011
 * Definitely not an announcement of any product. In fact, no specific bicycle model is mentioned. Instead Litespeed and Merlin are recognized for their pioneering work in making "previously unobtainable metal grades available to frame builders."
 * Bicycling - New High-End Road and Tri Bikes, September 2010 Litespeed Xicon
 * Yes, a list of new products from several vendors, but it also contains the detail "Litespeed now has more carbon road frames in its line than titanium, but the company isn't abandoning the material."
 * Bicycling - 2016 Buyer's Guide: The Super-Light Titanium Litespeed T1sl
 * Yup. This is just a product announcement.
 * Bicycling - Litespeed’s Newest Gravel Bike Does It All
 * Yup. This is just a product announcement.
 * Bike Rumor - Factory Tour: Litespeed Celebrates 30 years of cutting edge titanium bicycle
 * Definitely not a product announcement. Instead this is an update on the company with some historical background. Also, Bike Rumor does call itself a "blog", but Zach Overholt is "Managing Editor for Bikerumor.com" and so the article falls under the exception "Content from a collaboratively created website may be acceptable if the content was authored by, and is credited to, credentialed members of the site's editorial staff."
 * Cycling Weekly - Icons of cycling: Litespeed Vortex by Simon Smythe
 * Definitely not a product announcement. Instead it is a look back 15 years on the legacy of a frame that "would turn out to be titanium’s swansong in pro cycling, as well as its apogee."
 * VeloNews - After a two-year hiatus, Litespeed’s TT bike is back and looks sharper than ever
 * While this article does introduce a new model, it also provides a great deal of history of and detail about a bike that played an important role in the sport, such as how "the signature titanium airfoil tube shape was created by accident in the early 1990s and brought to widespread prominence when Lance Armstrong used one (disguised as a Trek) in the 1999 Tour de France."
 * FinancesOnline - The World’s 10 Most Expensive Bikes: Cycling With Style #9 Litespeed Blade
 * Definitely not a product announcement. Probably better described now as "click-bait".
 * Times Free Press - American Bicycle Group rides into future, Litespeed, Quintana Roo maker shifts to Chattanooga location
 * Definitely not a product announcement. This is an article all about recent changes to the company.
 * In summary, of the 9 articles:
 * 2 definitely are just product announcements
 * 2 do introduce new products, but also include important other details about the company and its history
 * 1 is click-bait
 * 4 definitely are not product announcements, and focus instead on the company and its history.
 * Thus, I would rate the assertion that "most of those are just routine announcements of specific products" as mostly false.
 * Plus, there is plenty of depth available in articles such as:
 * "Made: Lynskey Performance Designs in Tennessee" by Adam Newman, December 22, 2014 in Bicycling Times Magazine (http://bicycletimesmag.com/made-lynskey-performance-designs-in-tennessee/), which includes such details about Litespeed Bicycle as:
 * "At a bicycle trade show in 1986, two East Coast companies introduced titanium bicycle frames in an era where steel ruled the roost, and carbon was just a twinkle in the industry’s eye. One of them became Litespeed"
 * "that’s how Bill Lynskey started, with his small machine shop building high-end chemical and chlorine processing equipment for industrial, aerospace and defense projects"
 * "In the mid-1980s when David Lynskey was nursing a knee injury he took up cycling, got hooked, and quickly began competing."
 * "So with the help of his brother Chris, they welded up a bike and sure enough it worked."
 * "pro cyclists were riding Litespeed frames painted over with their sponsor’s logos. A certain Mr. Armstrong rode one painted as a Trek in the 1999 Tour de France."
 * "Shortly after Bill Lynskey passed away the family sold the company to American Bicycle Group."
 * "See how Litespeed bikes are built in Ooltewah, Tenn." by Mitra Malek, February 23rd, 2015 in Times Free Press (http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/business/aroundregion/story/2015/feb/23/see-how-litespeed-bikes-are-built-ooltewah-tenn/289810/), which includes such details about Litespeed Bicycles as:
 * "The team that turns titanium into bikes at American Bicycle Group's Ooltewah headquarters is 32 strong. They design and cut and bend and weld."
 * "Litespeed started in 1986. It was one of the first to use titanium to build bike frames."
 * "The company's carbon fiber Litespeeds and the Quintana Roo line are manufactured overseas."
 * "I have to make subtle changes to accommodate for components" being released in the industry, says Brad DeVaney, American Bicycle Group's head of product design and development."
 * to make the article much more than a "very brief, incomplete stub".
 * Finally, mainstream press articles, such as:
 * "Litespeed's Titanium Bike Looks Like a Stealth Bomber, Is Priced Accordingly" by Leander Kahney, Sept 25, 2008 in Wired (https://www.wired.com/2008/09/return-of-the-b/), which includes such details about Litespeed Bicycles as:
 * "the titanium-framed bike that helped propel Lance Armstrong to his first Tour win."
 * "Holt is the owner of Bicycle Link, a bike store in Atlanta and a Litespeed dealer."
 * "With its expertise in shaping titanium, Litespeed also makes missile wings for Lockheed Martin"
 * "built the chassis and suspension for NASA's new Mars rover, the Mars Science Laboratory, which is headed to the red planet next year."
 * "Based in Chattanooga, Tennessee, Litespeed claims to employ some of the world's leading titanium experts."
 * "the Blade is set to come back on the market as soon as Litespeed finishes testing the new design in the wind tunnel."
 * ""There's some new aero tricks that have never been done in metal bikes," said Brad DeVaney, Litespeed's head designer."
 * "The Showroom: The Worthiest Steeds, Circa 1996: Litespeed Hiwassee, $1,595 by Gordon Black, Alan Coté and Bob Howells, March 1996 in Outside (https://www.outsideonline.com/1844481/showroom-worthiest-steeds-circa-1996), which includes such details about Litespeed Bicycles as:
 * "The Tennessee-built bike offers Ti's legendary ride"
 * "Litespeed keeps the Hiwassee affordable by using a powder-coated finish"
 * "Bike vs. Bike: Litespeed Siena by Keith Schorsch, Sept 29, 2008 in CNNMoney (http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/smallbusiness/0809/gallery.bike_face_off.smb/3.html), which includes such details about Litespeed Bicycles as:
 * "Litespeed Siena, WEIGHT: 17 pounds, PRICE: $4,000
 * "you can't beat a classic road bike like my Litespeed Siena."
 * "Sleek, light and durable speedsters by Roy M. Wallack, October 13, 2003 in LA Times (http://articles.latimes.com/2003/oct/13/health/he-gear13), which includes such details about Litespeed Bicycles as:
 * "Litespeed Siena: A racing bike with striking looks and titanium-carbon frame."
 * "Aerodynamic, wing-shaped down tube, fork and seat stays. Unpainted titanium mainframe is durable, scratchproof. Carbon fork and stays cushion the ride."
 * "Weighs 19 pounds. "Price: $3,530."
 * demonstrate that coverage spans more than two decades and is not limited to limited interest publications. -AndrewDressel (talk) 03:46, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Still more in print:
 * Bike!: A Tribute to the World's Greatest Racing Bicycles by Richard Moore and Daniel Benson, 2012, The Miegunyah Press, an imprint of Melbourne University Publishing, ISBN 0522861830, 9780522861839 available for preview on Google Books
 * "While most other manufacturers were experimenting with aluminum and carbon, Litespeed pioneered the use of titanium in bicycle frames and produced bikes that were as revered for their sumptuous silver finish as their durability and light weight."
 * "For a long time that reputation was linked to the frames that the Tennessee company produced for other brands, including Bianchi, Merckx, De Rosa, and Trek."
 * "In 2002--by which point David's brother Mark Lynskey had become the company's president--Litespeed stepped into the big league..."
 * "The secret to this success lay in Litespeed's use of 6/4 titanium, comprising 6 percent aluminum and 4 percent vanadium, as opposed to the more usual 3/2.5 mix."
 * The Racing Bicycle: Design, Function, Speed by Richard Moore, Daniel Benson, and Robert Penn, 2015, Rizzoli International Publications, Incorporated, ISBN 0789331012, 9780789331014. No preview available, sadly.
 * "Litespeed" pages 176-181
 * "Richard Moore, a former racing cyclist, is a regular contributor to the Guardian, Sky Sports, and Procycling."
 * "Daniel Benson is the managing editor of Cyclingnews.com, the largest online cycling magazine."
 * "Robert Penn is the author of It’s All About the Bike and writes for the Financial Times and Conde Nast Traveler."
 * The No-Drop Zone: Everything You Need to Know about the Peloton, Your Gear and Riding Strong by Patrick Brady, 2011, Menasha Ridge Press, ISBN 978-0-89732-660-5. Available for preview on Google Books
 * "Soon after, the company that is today the largest playing in the titanium market, Litespeed, got its start.
 * "Eventually, Litespeed's parent company bought Merlin.
 * and so coverage is international, deep, and not merely online. -AndrewDressel (talk) 19:04, 15 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment This does not seem to be an encyclopedic topic, and is unsupported by adequate reliable sources. DaveApter (talk) 15:47, 18 September 2017 (UTC)


 * In what way does it "not seem to be an encyclopedic topic"? Because it is an article about a company? Because it is not notable? Please indicate in which way the topic does not seem to be encyclopedic.
 * What is inadequate about the sources that support this article? The requirements that I can find are:
 * significant coverage in secondary sources, which must be reliable and independent of the subject. "Significant" is not defined, except that "single independent source is almost never sufficient," which leaves it open to interpretation.
 * coverage cannot be trivial or incidental.
 * coverage cannot be only local or of limited interest and circulation.
 * So here are the independent, reliable, secondary sources with non trivial or incidental coverage that demonstrate that "at least one regional, statewide, provincial, national, or international" source exists:
 * 1. Wired - Litespeed's Titanium Bike Looks Like a Stealth Bomber, Is Priced Accordingly by Leander Kahney, Sept 25, 2008 (available online):
 * Wired is completely independent of Litespeed.
 * Wired is reliable. It was founded in 1993 and has a circulation of 851,823.
 * Wired is a secondary source.
 * Wired's coverage in this article is not trivial or incidental. It is mostly about a specific product, but includes many details about the company.
 * Wired is not of limited interest or circulation.
 * 2. Bike!: A Tribute to the World's Greatest Racing Bicycles by Richard Moore and Daniel Benson, 2012, The Miegunyah Press, an imprint of Melbourne University Publishing, ISBN 0522861830, 9780522861839 available for preview on Google Books and available for sale on Amazon:
 * Bike! is completely independent of Litespeed.
 * Bike! is reliable. It was written by established authors and published by an established publisher. It is not self-published.
 * Bike! is a secondary source.
 * Bike! coverage in this article is not trivial or incidental.
 * Bike! is a hardcover book and so its "interest" and "circulation" are unknown, but it is an international source. Are there some kind interest broadness and/or sales volume criteria for hardcover books?
 * 3. Cycling Weekly - Icons of cycling: Litespeed Vortex by Simon Smythe, February 13, 2017 (available online):
 * Cycling Weekly is completely independent of Litespeed.
 * Cycling Weekly is reliable. It was founded in 1891 and has a circulation of 28,809.
 * Cycling Weekly is a secondary source.
 * Cycling Weekly coverage in this article is not trivial or incidental.
 * Cycling Weekly is of limited interest and circulation, but establishes international coverage.
 * 4. Times Free Press - "See how Litespeed bikes are built in Ooltewah, Tenn." by Mitra Malek, February 23rd, 2015 (available online):
 * Times Free Press is completely independent of Litespeed.
 * Times Free Press is reliable. It is one of Tennessee's major newspapers.
 * Times Free Press is a secondary source.
 * Times Free Press coverage in this article is not trivial or incidental.
 * Times Free Press is of regional circulation but establishes coverage beyond limited interest publications
 * 5. BikeRumor Factory - Tour: Litespeed Celebrates 30 years of cutting edge titanium bicycle by Zach Overholt, February 2016 (available online):
 * BikeRumor is completely independent of Litespeed.
 * BikeRumor is reliable. It describes itself as a blog, but the article is written by the managing editor of BikeRumor, and "content from a collaboratively created website may be acceptable if the content was authored by, and is credited to, credentialed members of the site's editorial staff."
 * BikeRumor is a secondary source.
 * BikeRumor's coverage in this article is not trivial or incidental.
 * BikeRumor is of limited interest and doesn't have "circulation" numbers, but claims "more than 4.5 million monthly pageviews as of September 10, 2014 (per Google Analytics)"
 * 6. Bicycling - Bike Gear Hall of Fame, October 2011 (available online):
 * Bicycling is completely independent of Litespeed.
 * Bicycling is reliable. It was founded in 1961 and has a circulation of 325,000.
 * Bicycling is a secondary source.
 * Bicycling's coverage in this article is not trivial or incidental.
 * Bicycling is of limited interest but not limited circulation and so shows national coverage.
 * So that's 6 reliable sources including a US publication with 851,823 in circulation, a hardcover book published in Australia, a British weekly cycling magazine first published in 1891, a regional newspaper, and a US monthly cycling magazine with 325,000 in circulation. Combined, they establish:
 * significant (6+) coverage in secondary sources, which are reliable and independent of the subject.
 * coverage is not only trivial or incidental.
 * coverage is not only local or of limited interest and circulation.
 * I look forward to your response. -AndrewDressel (talk) 01:03, 19 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 04:41, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 04:41, 15 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Keep Agree with the first comment, notability is well established. Article may need work but should not be deleted.--INDIAN REVERTER (talk) 22:56, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Keep - despite the fact that the editor above was just blocked for voting keep on numerous articles in rapid fashion.  I just hunted for sources and it appears that Litespeed is one of the top manufacturers of titanium frames, despite general sentiment that their quality has gone down over the last 10 years since they were acquired by American Bicycle Group. TimTempleton (talk)  (cont)  04:13, 21 September 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.