Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Liverpool F.C.–Manchester City F.C. rivalry


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Fenix down (talk) 18:02, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Liverpool F.C.–Manchester City F.C. rivalry

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No evidence that this is a notable rivalry over it being a couple of teams who have been challenging for honours at the same time in the recent past. Spike &#39;em (talk) 15:13, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. Spike &#39;em (talk) 15:13, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Spike &#39;em (talk) 15:13, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - Was expecting to find little on this as had heard of the rivalries of both clubs with Manchester United but didn't consider there to be a notable rivalry between the clubs themselves. However, from a google search think there is enough to pass WP:GNG. The Manchester Evening News dedicates a whole page to documenting this as a rivalry the New York Times mentions it as "the rivalry that, it seems likely, will define the early 2020s in English soccer" . The guardian mentions this being a significant football rivvalty (albeit states that there are bigger rivalries) Forbes, BBC , The Telegraph . Somebody has even gone to the effort of writing a whole book on it according to Amazon (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fine-Margins-Manchester-Liverpool-Footballs/dp/1785316699). So my conclusion is there is enough coverage to support a keep on this.Tracland (talk) 15:49, 3 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment I personally don't agree that this is an actual "rivalry" but the fact a journo wrote a book on it (which doesn't appear to be selling well if Amazon rankings are to be believed) and the BBC has said there's been an edge since 2018, so there's at least more there for GNG purposes than something fictional. I just have no idea if it's lasting. SportingFlyer  T · C  17:55, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. GiantSnowman 12:01, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

The first game between them this season (19-20) in November was suggested at the time by the BBC (link) as being a title deciding moment. that's how important these games are viewed. I think it's clear that this is now a significant rivalry, and should be included. 141.92.129.42 (talk) 14:40, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - enough sources to justify notability. GiantSnowman 12:04, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep per Tracland. KingSkyLord (talk &#124; contribs) 17:17, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep - enough sources exist for this one Spiderone  12:33, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I am a bit myth'ed but the nomination, there are plenty of sources describing a recent rivalry over the last two decades. Govvy (talk) 12:57, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep per Tracland.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 09:42, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete As a Liverpool fan, the idea this has been a rivalry which developed over the last two decades is laughable. It's developed since 2016, when Gurdiola joined City. There might be a lot of sources indicating a rivalry, but it's a sign of recentism. Whether these sources constitute the creation of such an article is up for debate. If they do, then an equivalent one should be made for Chelsea v Liverpool. That rivalry was just as big in the early 2000s, has a greater longevity than the City one and is still relevant today. NapHit (talk) 11:08, 6 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment there's enough sources that say there is a rivalry but in addition to recentism, the quality of the article at present is poor. Much of the content is taken up by the relationship between the cities (which already has its own article, and in football is manifested in Liverpool v Man U) and a history of the clubs' managers - but no mention of any relationship between them until the arrival of Klopp and Pep. And a list of all matches is all very nice but you could produce that list about any two opponents frequently in the same division. If anything, until the events of the past couple of years I would have thought the two sets of fans had a decent relationship due to having mutual hatred for the same club. Obviously there is very high level competition between them just now, it's definitely a rivalry currently and that may continue, but only if both stay battling for the titles for years to come. The point is that the article on the subject should leave the reader in no doubt as to its nature, and I don't think it does so at present, possibly because historically there wasn't much to go on. Crowsus (talk) 08:37, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment/ keep - This is certainly a more recent rivalry than (say) the traditional inter-city derbies or things like Man Utd-Liverpool or Man Utd-Arsenal where they've been fighting for longer. However, it is quickly becoming the main rivalry in the Premier League.  So if you're saying it's not been around long enough, then how long does it need to be a rivalry for?
 * Delete Smacks of WP:recentism. A few big games over the last couple of seasons does not warrant creating an article on a “rivalry” that has no historical foundation. Exactly the same “rivalry” occurred between Liverpool and Chelsea in the mid 2000s—few high profile Champions League games—and no article was created for it. The Liverpool and Chelsea game has now gone back to what they were before their brief beef with each other, just another fixture. You have to give it much more time than a couple of seasons before a rivalry has substance. Much of the material of this article has been copied from the Liverpool vs Man U article, an actual rivalry over at least half a century. It’s WP:undue weight to give the Liverpool vs Man City game similar status. Cranberry Wood (talk) 02:04, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Obvious keep - To be brutally honest, it's very difficult to actually take this deletion proposal seriously without laughing when we have other 'rivalry' articles such as Leeds United F.C.–Manchester United F.C. rivalry, Leeds United F.C.–Millwall F.C. rivalry and Brighton & Hove Albion F.C.–Crystal Palace F.C. rivalry. None of these 'rivalries' are based on geography (i.e in the same city) nor have they really consistently 'competed' at the same level to count as true sporting rivals. They appear to simply exist on the basis of a couple of anecdotal stories of a few opposition fans kicking lumps out of one another and trash talk on club forums. It's quite apparent that Liverpool and Manchester City have a clear sporting rivalry that is borne out of perhaps the two exceptional teams of the Premier League era under Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola assuming they will both get 100 points. I'd say that it is not exactly like the Arsenal F.C.–Manchester United F.C. rivalry as there was a great deal of antipathy, but they were certainly the two clear 'stand-out' teams consistently competing for the Premier League in the early 2000s and were head and shoulders above everyone else in a similar vein to how Liverpool and Manchester City are now. Stevo1000 (talk) 23:50, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Not sure I need to give a reason for this one.... REDMAN 2019  ( talk ) 14:08, 10 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.