Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Liz Gorman (American football)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is that the sources found do provide sufficient coverage for WP:GNG. RL0919 (talk) 20:47, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Liz Gorman (American football)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Not finding enough WP:SIGCOV from reliable sources in my search to meet WP:GNG. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:22, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:22, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:22, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:22, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:22, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 20:58, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:00, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment - Added WP:FOOTY tags as subject used to be a soccer player as well as a football player. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 21:00, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - no evidence of notability. GiantSnowman 21:01, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. It's astonishing to me that WP:GRIDIRON grants presumed notability to any man who played in, e.g., the obscure United States Football League (1983–1985), but doesn't acknowledge even a single women's league. pburka (talk) 22:20, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That's because we haven't found a women's league where 90-95+ percent of participants meet the general notability guideline. In fact, only about 50 women football players have articles, see Category:Female players of American football and its subcat Category:Legends Football League players. BTW, whenever I've done an article on a USFL player I've found them to meet GNG BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:30, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. Very few women players of gridiron football are likely to pass our notability standards, but Gorman was voted the best defensive player in the league, inducted into the Hall of Fame, and has had some SIGCOV. Examples: (1) "Liz Gorman, un 'touch down' al corazón", CR Hoy Noticias (mainstream news outlet in Costa Rica), 2015 (feature story on Gorman); (2) "Mind the sport, not the underwear: American football star Liz Gorman", Yahoo News, 2013 (feature story on Gorman); (3) "Skimpy outfits will end someday, lingerie football player says", CBC, 2012 (story focused on Gorman's leadership of effort to eliminate the skimpy uniforms), (4) "A Lingerie Football League Player Doesn't Like Playing In Her Bra And Underwear", Business Insider, 2012 (more coverage of her efforts to change the league's skimpy outfits), and (5) "LFL Gets Undieway", Men's Fitness, 2/28/12. Unsure about whether this next group come from reliable sources, but see also (6) "The SIZZLING HOT LFL Hall Of Famer Who Is Reportedly Trying Out With The WWE, 2015, Bro Bible; (7) "LIZ GORMAN DEMANDE DU RESPECT POUR ELLE ET LA LFL", Cover Girls du Sport, 2014; (8) "Liz Gorman, another Lingerie Football player, could enter WWE", SuperLuchas, 2015; (9) "Lingerie Football Star Liz Gorman In WWE Tryout", WhatCulture, 2015 (describing her as a "lingerie football league legend"); and (10) Beauty and brawn: Stars of 'world's sexiest sport' out to break all stereotypes", Spin.ph, 2013. Cbl62 (talk) 00:44, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Though that's more than my search brought up, I still do not see enough for a pass of GNG. (1) You pointed out seems short, its only five sentences. (2) I agree is significant, so 1/3 for a pass IMO. (3) The content related to her seems to be mostly quotes; the only non-quote content of her is "Liz Gorman, who plays with the Tampa Breeze of the women's Lingerie Football League, also thinks more traditional football attire will happen someday ... Gorman believes the league will eventually evolve to the point that the more revealing outfits will go." So I do not see how that is SIGCOV. (4) Is almost the same thing, and links to the previous article. (5) May be SIGCOV, so that's 2/3? The others do not seem to be reliable sources, so I do not see enough for GNG. BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:58, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Way way way more coverage than we found for Vainowski. And there is no requirement of three. Two is multiple even if you discount the others (and I don’t agree with discounting 1, 3 and 4. Cbl62 (talk) 17:20, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * My interpretation of GNG is three pieces of SIGCOV. BTW, this AFD has nothing to do with Vainowski, I just stumbled upon this article and did not see what made her notable. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep per SIGCOV above and second 's incredulity. But honestly what's new in AfD discussions involving female athletes these days... Le sigh. Seany91 (talk) 09:32, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per GNG and sources above, and I hope that the local consensus to exclude nearly all women players of American football is challenged. The fact that Wikipedia only has pages for about 50 players should be seen as embarrassing rather than a point of pride. pburka (talk) 17:16, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Pburka has a valid point. Women’s American football has been around for quite a few years and has network television coverage. While I doubt that every player (or even a majority) would pass GNG, a grand total of 50 player bios doesn’t strike me as being over-representation. And Gorman is one of the true legends — three time Defensive Player of the Year and inducted into the hall of fame. Cbl62 (talk) 17:47, 29 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep - there are at least two examples of significant coverage above. In addition to that, Gorman's own individual accolades are enough to make a stand-alone article worth keeping, in my view. Others will disagree and I can understand why this is up for deletion but I certainly believe the project would be better from keeping this one. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep There appears to be significant coverage for Gorman's career. I don't have an issue with 50 artlicles for female football players, since the sport has rather niche appeal unlike, say, basketball, but it appears Gorman is one of the most well-known and decorated players of the sport. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs )~ 00:50, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per evidence of coverage provided above. Needs a major update to reflect her stats and other details of her pro football career. MarchOfTheGreyhounds (talk) 00:59, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep the sources provided above are sufficient to establish that significant coverage exists. L EPRICAVARK ( talk ) 04:14, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per GNG and RS noted.Deathlibrarian (talk) 08:18, 30 December 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.