Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Liz Shaw (New Zealand)

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. '''No consensus - keep. (See below for details)''' --HappyCamper 15:34, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Votes by established users:
 * Keep: 3 - inks, Robin Patterson, Nandesuka
 * Delete: 5 - KJPurscell, Aranda56, Lucky 6.9, fvw, Ziggurat


 * Renaming and disambiguation:
 * Elizabeth Joan Shaw or appropriate variant, plus disambiguation - 132.205.3.20, Allegrorondo, Lucky 6.9, inks, 203.173.189.162, Robin Patterson, Grutness, Crocos


 * Votes by the following users were discounted, primarily because of the low number of edit counts associated with them:
 * samf-nz, Nambio, Heyzoos, Crocos, Merstiner


 * The percentage of delete votes is 75% of 8 votes counted. This is a reasonable margin for deletion, hence delete both articles. In addition, since the article has been deleted, there is no need for the disambiguation. The suggestions for disambiguation here may be used as a guideline in the future if this article were to be reinstated. --HappyCamper 15:34, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Correction: Wikipedian inks was kind enough to double-check the counting, and noticed that Nandesuka's vote was incorrectly attributed as a "delete". This mistake has been corrected, and the numbers above reflect the new changes to the vote count. Of the 8 valid votes cast, 62.5% is for delete. This is marginally below the threshold of around 66% required for deletion, so the article "Liz shaw" will be undeleted and reinstated. "Liz Shaw NZ" contains the same content as "Liz shaw" as stated by 203.173.189.162. A disambiguation page Liz Shaw (disambiguation) will also be made as a result. --HappyCamper 02:22, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Liz shaw (with a lower case "s") and Liz Shaw NZ
Was first deleted before by me, but subsequently restored by me as well. There is sufficient content in here that probably should not have been speedily deleted, but I suspect this is not a notable subject and worthy of deletion. Would very much like a second opinion. Thanks very much! HappyCamper 05:54, 28 August 2005 (UTC) -- 02:21, 30 August 2005 (UTC): I added the other link to Liz Shaw NZ. Wikipedia shouldn't need two pages on this person? Perhaps I should notify the anonymous IP not to paste two copies of the article in Wikipedia. However, I think the reason why two pages exist is because I deleted one, and the IP created the other, and this sort of went back and forth... --HappyCamper 02:21, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Note: Due to the recent surge of vandalism to Liz shaw, I have protected both pages from being edited during this AfD process. The images used in both articles were deleted because they were not substantiated as material compatible with the GFDL. --HappyCamper 00:04, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: I think New Zealanders are going to have to make the call on this. Is there a New Zealander project to discuss this on?  Zoe 06:02, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know. I initially speedied it, but in retrospect it was too rash of a decision. Better to let vfd dialogue take over. I don't know if there is a New Zealander Wikipedian group. --HappyCamper 06:04, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
 * There is - one of the more active Country-specific WikiProjects, too, complete with portal. But I digress. FWIW, as a kiwi, I've never heard of her, but that may be just me. Grutness...  wha?  08:53, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Grutness - seeing as you live in Dunedin, there is a write up about the Liz Shaw phenomenon in a recent Critic issue. Here's a link to the online version, but I imagine you'll have no trouble finding a copy (although it's really not worth the time) :)--inks 10:32, 28 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete. Which isn't to say she's an uninteresting character.  But one episode?  One Idol crash-and-burn?  One magazine?  (Sigh.)  Maybe I should submit all my rejection slips and see if I can get a 'pedia article about me :) --KJPurscell 06:10, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Annon Edit; This above point is irrelevant as William Hung has a Wiki entry, for one bad audition he did. And Liz's subsequent publicity led to an invitation to do a porn movie with Ron Jeremy. Liz's publicity, while not on the same scale as William Hung's is still prolific considered New Zealand's size. I support the renaming to "Elizabeth Joan Shaw".

Keep The Liz Shaw Phenomenon is actually quite widespread here in NZ. She is reasonably (in)famous, and has featured on several NZ websites and magazines (including one of the adult variety). With all respect to KJPurscell, she has used her rejection as a springboard to more infamy (the same kind you'd get if you posed with your rejection slips in an erotic fashion). --inks 06:16, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Now there's a terrifying image. :) --KJPurscell 18:56, 28 August 2005 (UTC)


 * She sounds more notable than Angelyne. :) Zoe 06:27, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

Annon: She is notorious amongst the student and youth pop of NZ but Dr Who would have arguably more world-wide relevance. However this does not mean the New Zealand Liz Shaw is not worth a wiki.
 * No vote yet . I'd like to hear from more experienced Kiwi Wikipedians on this issue.  On the one hand she seems "notable enough" but on the other hand everything I can find online about her looks like it is sourced from the same group of Internet forums; so it feels like this might just be an attack article by some very tenacious haters.  Also, the "links" section on this article is of tragically poor quality, although VfD is not cleanup. Nandesuka 12:29, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Notability has been established to my satisfaction.  She's notable.  Stupid, but notable. Nandesuka 23:15, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep I was the one who placed the speedy tag on this but after it was restored I did some research and I found more than 200,000 hits in google but mostly from forums. It needs some HEAVY CLeanup ERASE THat Sex Junk thats why i placed it on speedy on the first place and erase some more of those comments and It could Stay. If Not Delete--Aranda56 02:00, 29 August 2005 (UTC) Vote Change Socks placed me from Weak Keep to 100 persent Delete --Aranda56 06:54, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
 * RENAME to "Elizabeth Joan Shaw" and disambig. Arguably outside of Kiwi-land, Dr. "Liz" Shaw, a character from Doctor Who is more notable. 132.205.3.20 21:00, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * rename per previous comment - my first thought was "why are they deleting Dr Who characters?". Allegrorondo 21:04, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep I've just tidied up portions of the page. I believe the article's worthy of retention, since she is now extremely well-known online in NZ and is becoming so in the wider population as well. samf-nz 14:45, 30 August 2005 (NZT) User has less than 10 edits
 * Delete. I smell socks.  Take the above vote, for example.  Two edits, both to this page.  Naughty sock.  I found maybe three relevant Google hits for this individual.  I'd say a disambig of the "Liz Shaw" version to the Doctor Who character is a good choice. - Lucky 6.9 02:59, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * *Sniff* Suspicion is character assasination, not proof! :) I would use www.google.co.nz and repeat your search. Disambig, but it should be kept in some form.--inks 03:14, 30 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete, and clothes pegs for everyone who smells socks. --fvw *  03:03, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * rename I originally posted this article, and wanted it to go under "Liz_Shaw_NZ" to avoid ambiguation wiht the Dr Who Liz Shaw. Due to an error on my part it was posted to "Liz_shaw" instead, and when HappyCamper deleted it, I reposted it to Liz_Shaw_NZ because I thought that it should go to a vote, rather than speedy deletion.  I would be happy for the article to be moved to Liz_Joan_Shaw, or left at Liz_Shaw_NZ with the Liz_shaw entry deleted.  Also, I would like to mention that I am none of the people refered to in the article. (posted by 203.173.189.162) --HappyCamper 03:18, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, sorry about that. In retrospect, this one shouldn't have been speedied which is why I've set up this VfD in the same sentiment you stated above. --HappyCamper 03:18, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete While she apparently has some notoriety, it's not nearly notable enough for Wikipedia (IMHO as an NZer, of course). One concern is that the Wikipedia article itself is intended as a springboard. I concur with KJPurscell regarding the supposed significance of this subject :) Ziggurat 03:25, August 30, 2005 (UTC)


 * I've lost track of the asterisks, so someone can reformat this if necessary. I've heard of her, despite having read no student mags, hardly any blogs, and very few newspapers in the last 12 months. Eurekster.com search engine has not heard of her (and has only one entry on the fictional one). She's not the best advertisement for New Zealand, but there's enough public knowledge of her to keep the article in WP, preferably with a properly styled page name such as "Liz Shaw, New Zealand". I think she is more encyclopaedic than US college football coach Paul Hines, for example (nothing personal, Paul and friends!). Robin Patterson 05:59:17, 2005-08-30 (UTC)
 * Unless she's suddenly become a town, that should be Liz Shaw (New Zealand), Robin! I'd agree with making Liz Shaw a dab page though. The good doctor's companion (the first one with the Pertwee Doctor, IIRC) is well known here too. Grutness...  wha?  04:16, 31 August 2005 (UTC)


 * For all those in NZ who are interested, Liz is appearing on 20/20 in relation to the porn shoot she did. It airs this thursday (Sept 1), 9:30pm, TV2 (posted by 203.173.189.162) --


 * KEEP She is well known in NZ, frequencting virtually every NZ internet forum, and being in numerous media publications.--Nambio 04:48, 1 September 2005 (UTC) User has less than 10 edits. Started editing today.


 * Keep I have nothing to add to this discussion other than I think the page should stay, for future reference for parents, who always need material to scare their children into behaving. Internet bogeywoman? --Heyzoos


 * Please keep There is nothing defaming or libellious, and this is a topic interesting and relevant to many New Zealanders. Everything quoted in the article was verifiable, sources were cited, and was a fair and neutral representation.


 * In addition this topic is also relevant to anyone interested in the effects of popular media on young adults. The "Liz Shaw" phenomenon is a (IMO) facinating look at how far some people will go to get noticed - whether through fame or infamy.


 * I support namming the topic as Liz Shaw NZ or Liz Shaw (New Zealand) as she is not known as Elizabeth Joan Shaw - as well as a dab page from Liz Shaw to the correct pages for both the "Liz Shaws. I suppose that if the topic WAS to be renamed Elizabeth Joan Shaw that could be handled through a Liz Shaw dab page also - would that mean that the current Liz Shaw page is renamed to Liz Shaw (Dr Who) or similar? Maybe. A topic merge of both the Liz shaw and Liz Shaw NZ entries is an excellent idea.


 * It's funny how despite having done a few Wikipedia entries and updates that it's a deletion that would actually prompt me to create an account... ;-)
 * --Crocos 12:10:06, 2005-09-03 (UTC)


 * KEEP She is a well known person in New Zealand, with her appearing in adverts that screen daily, a documentary last week, many discussion forums, and NZ Idol (albeit only in one show). It is important to separate opinions about her and her actions/style/way of life with the fact that she is now an emerging public/well-known figure. Merstiner 12:09, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.