Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Local derby


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to List of sports rivalries. postdlf (talk) 20:26, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Local derby

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

vastly incomplete duplicate of List of sports rivalries — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abcmaxx (talk • contribs) 16:28, 3 January 2015‎ (UTC)
 * Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Articles for deletion/Log/2015 January 3.  — cyberbot I  Notify Online 16:55, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions.  Rcsprinter123     (jaw)  @ 21:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions.  Rcsprinter123     (report)  @ 21:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:09, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 03:09, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Redirect to existing, better article, per nom. GiantSnowman 10:25, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Redirect - per GS, List of sports rivalries covers this better. Fenix down (talk) 10:32, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: It should probably be pointed out that this article has been suggested for merging with crosstown rivalry for three years now. Malpass93! (what I've been up to/drop me a ___) 17:34, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: The crosstown rivalry article is equally incomplete and very American-centric. The prose could be just copied&pasted/merged into the prose in List of sports rivalries, which seems to be much more complete. I nominated local derby because surely every local derby is a rivalry, it can be a friendly/amicable rivalry in some rare cases but even then its a rivalry of a kind and the vast majority are hotly contested ones, the List of sports rivalries contains all of the things in the local derby article anyway. Having only one article would solve problems such as "how local does a derby have to be to class it as a local derby" "what is a derby and what is just a rivalry" etc.Abcmaxx (talk) 21:10, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment: I was the one that split the crosstown rivalry one off from the local derby one many years ago, because at the time, the local derby article was extremely large and unwieldy, and the phrase "crosstown rivalry" is more of an Americanism anyway (to tell the truth, we tend to use it in other contexts besides sports as well, such as newspapers, radio stations, etc.). Now, as for the issue at hand: not all rivalries are local derbies or crosstown rivalries; of course, then, any list of such derbies will be "vastly incomplete" compared to the whole, so the premise of the AFD is false. J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 23:06, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, N ORTH A MERICA 1000 01:19, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep Per WP:AFD and WP:CFORK, duplicate articles should not be deleted as there are more efficient alternatives. Andrew D. (talk) 13:15, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Reply to J. Myrle Fuller: not all rivalries are local derbies or crosstown rivalries; of course, then, any list of such derbies will be "vastly incomplete" compared to the whole, so the premise of the AFD is false. Yes but all local /crosstown rivalries ARE rivalries, and therefore the premise of the AfD is not false. I still fail to see a big enough distinction between the three and too much overlap to merit 3 separate articles whereas 2 redirects and 1 comprehensive article would be much more beneficial Abcmaxx (talk) 17:19, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Reply to Abcmaxx: A crosstown rivalry is any rivalry between two entities, be they newspapers, radio stations, TV stations, storefront businesses, sports teams or anything else that represent different areas of the same town. A sports rivalry is any rivalry between two teams in a given sport. A local derby is both, although the U.S. almost never uses the term and I don't think Canada does, either. (I tried to place an edit into the article when I split it off mentioning the other uses of the term "crosstown rivalry" but someone deleted it; hence why that article only mentions sports.) The sports-rivalry article lists numerous rivalries that are not local and does not distinguish between which are local and which are not (because that is not the purpose of that article). J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 01:46, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Reply: I understand but they are still subtle differences which can be put into one article, I'm not convinced it is necessary to distinguish it as much as to have two long (and incomplete) lists. The vast majority of rivalries are local, and the fact that in the U.S, & Canada the common terminology is different is all the more reason to have 1 unified article. Just because in North America they may call a crosstown rivalry doesn't necessaries mean it is not a local derby and vice versa, every local derby is a crosstown rivalry as well. Such naming distinctions are common, for example Londonderry is the same article as Derry as it refers to one and the same city, regardless of which name one wants to use.
 * Plus how local is a local derby? Man Utd vs. Man City is a local derby as they're both from Manchester but then again so is Man Utd vs. Liverpool as the two cites are quite close. But what about Leeds Utd vs. Man Utd both cities contest a derby both are only 40 miles apart but is it local enough to call it a local derby? In comparison Yeovil Town and Exeter City is local derby despite the distance being much greater than between Leeds and Manchester.
 * I fail to see why you would need to distinguish how local is a rivalry in that article - in Local derbies in the United Kingdom the rivalries are local from the point of view they are all within the borders of England or Wales or Scotland or N.Ireland but some of the local derbies listed are inter-regional, and therefore in the eyes of some probably not considered 'local' Abcmaxx (talk) 03:02, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, N ORTH A MERICA 1000 20:14, 18 January 2015 (UTC) Redirect to List of sports rivalries. Local derby is better described in the context of other types of rivalry than as a stand-alone topic. Aspirex (talk) 02:33, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete would be my first choice here. An alternative would be to keep but reduce to a disambiguation page for the articles that we have on local derbies in different countries. I don't support keeping the article in its current form and I'm not convinced by the arguments for a redirect. --Michig (talk) 14:42, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.