Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lola Yuldasheva


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep.  Wifione  Message 10:49, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Lola Yuldasheva

 * – ( View AfD View log )

The only notability claim is a Tarona Award for Best Female Singer in 2005. The link provided in the article appears to be original research regarding that claim, and I am unable to locate any reliable source content to support such a claim or a WP:GNG claim either. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 18:27, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  —Tom Morris (talk) 19:00, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Uzbekistan-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 23:31, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 23:32, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

There are very few on-line sources about Uzbek artists. Uzbekistan has a very low Internet penetration rate due to both government restrictions and high prices. By asking to delete articles in Wikipedia about Uzbekistan and Uzbek artists you are not helping at all. It seems to be true that Wikipedia is a collection of articles by conservative twenty-somethings who are trying to rewrite history. I have included as many sources as I could to the article. They are not unreliable as you claim. Unlike flamboyant American websites the few existing Uzbek websites are not very-well designed. You should immediately remove this article from the list of articles to be deleted. Nataev (talk) 19.23, 18 November 2011 (UTC+01:00) —Preceding undated comment added 18:26, 18 November 2011 (UTC). 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:00, 20 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep I do not speak or read Uzbek, nor does Google offer a translation facility, so this is an occasion on which I have to assume good faith. WP:MUSICBIO needs to be interpreted contextually, and there is enough evidence from a Google search that she is a sufficently popular singer in Uzbekistan to pass the notabiity threshold. In addition, she clearly did have a leading part in a popular film which is another claim to notability. As Nataev points out, an equivalent artist in the US would undoubtedly pass. It can always be brought back if the claims are later shown to be false. Doubtless there are Uzbek magazines and newspapers that could be used as sources, but the truth is that it would be impossible for us to check them anyway, so good faith must be assumed in the absence of any evidence to the contrary. --AJHingston (talk) 13:16, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - AJ has it backwards. We don't default to keep, particularly on BLP articles because we can't find sources to disprove. Nor do we give a pass because it's hard to find sources. If there's an iceberg of sources then at least demonstrate there's something from what's available.

I also like the creator's comment: "It seems to be true that Wikipedia is a collection of articles by conservative twenty-somethings who are trying to rewrite history." It's followed by "immediately remove this article from the list of articles to be deleted." That just advertises you're unfamiliar with our policies and how AfD works. Just read the top of the WP:AFD page and it explains that in most cases the page will be listed here for 7 days. I have no opinion on whether the article should be kept or not. It needs sources however there are a few. Shadowjams (talk) 21:53, 20 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep Thank you very much for taking the time to discuss this article. Shadowjams, I did not know how AfD works indeed. Now I do. I have included as many sources to the article as I could. The problem is that it is very hard to find sources about Uzbek entertainers in Uzbek, yet alone in English. I am a native speaker of Uzbek and can verify that the sources I have included in fact say what I claim they do. If I were in Uzbekistan, I would cite printed newspapers and magazines. I have also written this article in Russian and O'zbek. Russian Wikipedia users have not asked it to be deleted since there are a few sources about Lola Yuldasheva in Russian. I will try to add more reliable sources to the article. Nataev (talk) 12.33, 21 November 2011 (UTC+01:00)
 * Comment - I hope you are able to locate reliable sources, Nataev. Unfortunately the current sources on the article do not appear to be reliable ones.  ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 17:26, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - There is a plethora of artists about obscure porn stars in Wikipedia. You can't possibly claim that an influential artist is not worth to be on Wikipedia just because you have not heard about her. You might be an administrator (a radically conservative one at that), but you cannot delete an article from Wikipedia just because you don't like it. Nataev —Preceding undated comment added 18:55, 21 November 2011 (UTC).

—Preceding undated comment added 11:33, 21 November 2011 (UTC). — Akmalzhon (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep I am a native speaker of Uzbek and the sources that have been cited are reliable. Lola is indeed a very famous singer and actress in Uzbekistan. I totally agree with Nataev. Articles about Uzbek performars are few and far between. Akmalzhon (talk) 12.33, 21 November 2011 (UTC+01:00)


 * Comment - While testimonials are nice to have, unfortunately we still need reliable sources. Otherwise the article is just original research unfortunately.  If reliable sources exist, please add them.  If not, then she unfortunately is not sufficiently notable for a Wikipedia article.  ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 17:26, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep - Instead of starting an AfD on an article you find issues with, why not improve it? It's obviously notable, and the appropriateness of a source should be weighed in relation to the subject as stated in Verifiability.  I will concede, however, that perhaps this article is more appropriate on a different-language Wikipedia.  nprice (talk) 16:50, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - Of course I tried to find reliable sources prior to nominating. Unfortunately it does not appear that there are reliable independent sources to establish notability - hence the AfD.  ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 17:02, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - You couldn't find reliable sources in English. There're plenty of reliable sources in Russian and Uzbek. You cannot decide on your own if an article meets notability requirements or not. Nataev —Preceding undated comment added 17:45, 23 November 2011 (UTC).


 * Comment - Please provide them. What has been provided so far have been personal testimonials based upon WP:OR and WP:SYNTH.  If there are so many reliable sources, provide them and we can read them to get a rough idea of what they say using google translate.  What has been provided so far has been primarily social media and passing mentions.  Those do not constitute reliable sourcing.  ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 18:16, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - Google Translate does not translate Uzbek. This very fact shows that there are very few sources about Uzbekistan and its people. There are many periodicals, magazines, and books about Uzbek artists in hard copy, but there are not many on-line sources. I am not in Uzbekistan to cite printed media. People who are in Uzbekistan are not going to provide more sources because they don't have much access to the Internet in the first place. There's a reason why Russian and Uzbek Wikipedia users have not asked to include the article in the list of AfD. Nataev (talk)


 * Comment - Is there a national music chart in Uzbekistan? If there is, it would be necessary only to show that Lola had one song in that. If there is not, it helps to demonstrate why different criteria need to be used. I think that there is an assumption that she should go in Wikipedia only if she can meet the criteria applicable for North American musicians and that cannot be correct. She needs to be shown to be notable in Uzbekistan, and personally I get plenty of evidence of that in Google searches - I do wonder whether people are using the right techniques. Lola+film name or song name comes up with different results from a search on her full name, and they correspond with the material in the article. It might also be worth addressing the complaints that the sources are 'original research' or 'not reliable'. Again, I think that there is a misunderstanding about the way these things work. Unless the official media run websites that contain interviews and biographies of musicians like Lola, awards, film charts and so on then it can only be provided in other ways. After all, not very many North American musicans would get into Wikipeida if we had to rely on offical media. Are there Russian language websites that help to confirm the information in the article and demonstrate that she is notable amongst Uzbek performers? --AJHingston (talk) 01:10, 24 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment - I have cited Darakchi, an Uzbek weekly newspaper that has been published since 1999 and has a circulation of about 200, 000. (http://darakchi.uz/?page_id=2). The most reliable source would be the official website of the recording studio Tarona, but the website is being upgraded at the moment: http://www.tarona.uz/. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nataev (talk • contribs) 14:13, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.