Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lou La Luz


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. lifebaka++ 01:19, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Lou La Luz

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totally non-notable autobio-spam vanity article Wuh  Wuz  Dat  18:02, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete, copyvio of http://www.defenselink.mil/News/newsarticle.aspx?id=54592. Author removed Speedy template, and edited out several sentences, but the ones that remain are still verbatim cut & paste copyright violations. Previously speedied once already. Hairhorn (talk) 18:59, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment. Note the .mil domain. Material created by the U.S. government (including the U.S. military) is automatically in the public domain, but the source should be acknowledged. -- Eastmain (talk) 19:25, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I forgot about US public domain law; but this is still uncredited and still a non-notable subject. Hairhorn (talk) 19:43, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep. Probably notable as a bodybuilding champion. I am not certain whether the U.S. military's American Forces Press Service should be regarded as a reliable source. If the article is kept, it should be moved to Luis Laluz -- Eastmain (talk) 19:46, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * They are considered an accredited press service. Niteshift36 (talk) 08:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I should think that the American Forces Press Service is reliable -- at least as reliable as any other government pub. Bigdaddy1981 (talk) 23:11, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Keep but cleanup -- former Mr America is notable. per new information below Bigdaddy1981 (talk) 19:51, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I made a first pass at some cleanup. Ideally more should be added re his bodybuilding as that is the source of his notability. Perhaps the foto from the .mil website can be added? Bigdaddy1981 (talk) 20:49, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Its a reasonable little stub about a notable former muscleman now, I think. Bigdaddy1981 (talk) 20:54, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, the Mr. America is an amateur title. Since there is a professional level to the sport of body building, winning an amateur title won't get him past WP:ATHLETE. Niteshift36 (talk) 08:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I take your point but is not Mr America "the highest amateur level of [the] sport" given that there is no Olympic or world championship competition in bodybuilding? If so I think that makes him notable per WP:ATHLETE. Bigdaddy1981 (talk) 19:54, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe the "highest amateur level of [the] sport" would have been the AAU Mr. Universe, organized by the same people as the AAU Mr. America competition that this articles subject won. Wuh  Wuz  Dat  21:22, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Is it though; they are organised by two different bodies -- the AAU and the IFBB. The highest IFBB amateur contest seems to be the Mr. Universe event and the highest IFBB seems to be  Mr. America. If I am wrong; let me know. I am certainly no expert in this matter. Bigdaddy1981 (talk) 21:51, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * IFBB Mr. Universe was a separate competition, mutually exclusive from the AAU Mr. Universe. Wuh  Wuz  Dat  21:55, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If so then he does, in fact, fail WP:ATHLETE. Bigdaddy1981 (talk) 00:53, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * A quick primer: The AAU is a minor force in amateur bodybuilding. The NPC is the primary organization in amateur bodybuilding. The NPC is by far the more prestigious of the two. NPC (and AAU) shows are divided essentially into two groups, local/regional shows and national shows. There is actually no single "highest level event". National shows (of which there are several) and the NPC Championships can be a venue to compete for a "pro card" Based on the size, strength of the field and the prestige of the show, a show can award the male and female winners (and runners up sometimes) with a "pro card", making them eligible to them compete as professionals in the IFBB. Since there is a professional level, the amateur level shouldn't be an issue for WP:ATHLETE. The IFBB is mainly professional. Their amateur extension is the NPC, although they do run one amateur championship, the World Amateur Bodybuilding Championships. BTW, the biggest IFBB title is the Mr. Olympia, not any America/Universe/World etc title. To me, saying that a former Mr. America passes WP:ATHLETE would be like saying that since a guy played NCAA football, he passes, while we ignore that there is a professional level like the NFL. In short, the AAU is a minor "league", there is a professional level to body building and the Mr. America is not it. Niteshift36 (talk) 04:30, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep with cleanup. Article shows notability  Triplestop  x3  20:39, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions.  —AustralianRupert (talk) 00:27, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. I hate to do it because he seems like an admirable guy, but he doesn't really pass notability. Niteshift36 (talk) 08:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.