Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lou Palmisano (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:14, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Lou Palmisano
AfDs for this article: 
 * – ( View AfD View log )

Non-notable minor league baseball player, who, as far as I can conjecture, is no longer playing professionally. This individual never played above the mid-minors and spent most of his career in the lower minors/independent ball. The majority of the references, if not all, are WP:ROUTINE. Alex (talk) 18:33, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 19:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  — • Gene93k (talk) 19:44, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

But I am no longer convinced that those alone are quite enough under current notability standards. Rlendog (talk) 20:18, 11 May 2011 (UTC) :*I should also point out that I don't regard the Milwaukee Journal article as trivial, just inadequate on its own or with the other non-independent or trivial sources. Rlendog (talk) 20:21, 11 May 2011 (UTC)  Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:22, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - Never even made AAA, so far below the threshold for WP:ATHLETE and I am not seeing any evidence of meeting WP:GNG. Rlendog (talk) 20:15, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Upon further consideration, HBWS may be right. I can't see the BA coverage, but if not trivial it is certainly not local.  So this may be appropriate to keep.  But given his skimpy record, I'm not certain it's necessary. Rlendog (talk) 21:23, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Weak delete – The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article has substantial coverage of Palmisano, and there's this article, which may be the same one mentioned in the first AfD (I haven't checked). However, the second one could be interpreted to be local coverage, and I didn't find anything else in Google News Archives that would contribute to a GNG pass. I think this falls just short of GNG, though I'd be inclined to reconsider if more coverage of him is found.  Giants2008  ( 27 and counting ) 00:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete I knew this name sounded familiar, I was the nominator of the first AfD. Delete for all the reasons I said then and now. He's not a notable figure, despite routine regional coverage, which did not persist. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:51, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep, still just as notable as he was the last time he was nominated. In what way is the Baseball America coverage mentioned "local"? They're a national publication, probably THE premier national source on minor league baseball. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 16:40, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * So he was "Baseball America's Short-Season All-Star, Most Valuable Player and an All-Star at catcher.". That doesn't make him notable. Frankly, Baseball America talks about a lot of prospects that don't end up being notable. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:16, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * According to the GNG the fact that Baseball America and other media outlets talk about players like Palmisano DOES make them notable. He was a significant prospect who received a full scouting writeup in several years' worth of BA's annual books. That's significant independent coverage. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 16:38, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * A few mentions in one well-known minor league periodical still is not "significant." Alex (talk) 17:28, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, I wasn't speaking about their magazine, although he undoubtedly received coverage in that as well. Rather, I was speaking about their annual prospect guide, which is an actual printed book. For example, here is the info for their 2011 edition, ISBN 1932391347, which is 512 pages in length. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 15:02, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Relisting comment. Since this survived a previous AFD with a clean keep, a little more participation would be helpful in determining if consensus really has changed. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:24, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep I find the coverage in reliable sources to be significant. See also the rationales cited by participants in the first AFD discussion. Chester Markel (talk) 05:17, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete. While he has some local coverage and the article is well-maintained, I'm not convinced that he is notable enough to have an article despite the references. Wizardman  Operation Big Bear 17:21, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Not so fast: according to Notability_(sports), playing so much as a single game for any Major League Baseball team indicates notability. Per Lou_Palmisano, he has been involved with Major League Baseball teams, which seems to fall within this standard. Chester Markel (talk) 21:28, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Not remotely. Palmisano has never played a major league game with the Houston Astros or any other team. Alex (talk) 21:57, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The question is whether being drafted by a major league team, participating in training with them, and being traded by them, in combination with the number of references available, pushes this article over the notability threshold. I believe that it does. Chester Markel (talk) 22:02, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Does not meet WP:WPBB/N which clearly states that a player must have played in the major league level and not merely associated with a major league team by playing on one of its minor league teams. Does not meet WP:GNG, as it does not have significant coverage in multiple sources. There was talk of mention in multiple publications by Baseball America, but "Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability."  The coverage in the other sources are predominantly WP:ROUTINE coverage that only briefly mention Palmisano. Overall, there is a lack of in-depth coverage in multiple sources to demonstrate notability of a WP:Run-of-the-mill minor league player. —Bagumba (talk) 07:19, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails to meet WP:GNG. Sources given are all either local to the team for which he was playing or from MLB.com or its affiliates (OurSportsCentral is affiliated with MiLB and is thus not an independent source). As for the coverage by Baseball America, there's no evidence it's beyond routine coverage, why isn't it cited in the article? Being MVP of a Rookie league does not necessarily make one notable. -Dewelar (talk) 03:19, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * They aren't cited in the article because the people who were !voting for deletion last time were apparently too lazy to add them to the article following the conclusion of the AFD. Fortunately, an individual's notability is a function only of available coverage, and not the presence of that coverage within the article. To quote from the GNG: "Notability requires only the existence of suitable reliable sources, not their immediate citation." -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 13:52, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The previous voters for keep could have added the sources as well :-) I've added Template:Notability tag to the article as a reminder that sources need to be added if this article manages to survive. —Bagumba (talk) 16:33, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment It seems the previous deletion discussion was closed by Non-admin closure as a KEEP, meeting WP:GNG. However, new to this 2nd AfD are claims that the sources are WP:ROUTINE and do not meet WP:GNG expectation of multiple sources of significant coverage. —Bagumba (talk) 16:33, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.