Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Louis, Duke of Burgundy (b. 2010)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou. All of the verified, relevant info is already in the father's article, so there's not really anything to merge. Editors can has out exactly what is WP:DUE on the father's article's talk page and add info per normal editing practices. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:19, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Louis, Duke of Burgundy (b. 2010)

 * – ( View AfD View log )

One-year old baby whose only claim to notability is that his father is a member of nobility and a ninth-generation (contested) claimant to a long-defunct European throne. Notability in Wikipedia is not inherited. This goes for nobility like for everybody else. This child has no notability independent of his parents (whose own notability is marginal); there has been no particular amount of media coverage of him apart from the usual celebrity family gossip news of his birth; he is unlikely to do or be anything noteworthy for the next two decades at least, and the article currently has little to say about him apart from the dates of his birth and baptism (and his weight and size at birth). Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:24, 29 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Redirect and Merge to father’s article. Current information is useful to keep on record for a future article when he gets a bit older.- dwc lr (talk) 23:54, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 00:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Redirect/Merge to the article about his notable Pa. Notability is not inherited. Edison (talk) 19:51, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep I hate pointless AfD nominations like this. As for the nominator's comment that "Notability in Wikipedia is not inherited", we'll see how long he sticks by that comment when Prince William and Kate have their first child. OakWoodDoor (talk) 09:41, 1 December 2011 (UTC) vote by block-evading sockpuppet struck. – Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:56, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Your vote contains no argument. "Not inherited" is long-standing policy, see WP:BASIC. A child in the Windsor family would be fairly quick to attract genuine coverage in "multiple published secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject". This child hasn't. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:48, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep Notability might not be inherited, but nobility is, and nobility is notable. This child has inherited an aristocratic position that has notability, per our policies. There are sources included to support this. If the nominator thinks that nobility should not be inherited (a political standpoint outside WP, but not that unusual), then he'll be wanting the Jacobinpedia instead. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:01, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * An "aristocratic position", in the abstract, doesn't attract notability. Only people can attract notability. And that notability is not something that attaches to them a priori; it is only conveyed through "coverage in published sources". That's our long-standing policy, and we have multiple precedents of deleting articles on children with these kinds of aristocratic titles. (BTW, I hope your removal of my last posting was unintentional. And I'd encourage you to not speculate about my political positions.) Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:56, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Only people can attract notability.  Agreed.  And if you're in the succession to the throne of France, you can achieve this merely by being born. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:11, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * My apologies for accidentally deleting your previous post - I think I came here through a link to an old version and didn't notice the banner. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:13, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "you can achieve this merely by being born": No. You can achieve it only, ever, by having people talk about you, in reliable sources. That is the one and only criterion of what notability means in Wikipedia. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, and as potential royalty (however implausible), that happens from birth. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
 * [citation needed]. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:11, 1 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Redirect and Merge to father’s article. WP:NOTDIR is quite explicit saying "Genealogical entries. Biography articles should only be for people with some sort of fame, achievement, or perhaps notoriety. One measure of these is whether someone has been featured in several external sources (on or off-line). Less well-known people may be mentioned within other articles", and this article is exactly that: a genealogical entry. Andy's argument that "nobility is notable" has no ground in our practice thus far, and it's unlikely that it ever will. No such user (talk) 07:36, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep:As the son of the pretender to the French throne, and (de jure) second in line to said throne himself, he is notable. 41.133.1.188 (talk) 14:12, 2 December 2011 (UTC) — 41.133.1.188 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Delete, although I suppose you could redirect it to the page of his equally unimportant father, the so-called Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou. If you want to know how irrelevant this family is, just read his father's Wikipedia page: he is "one of the current pretenders to the defunct crown of France" and "He is styled 'Duke of Anjou', although the French courts have ruled that this is an abolished title." (Strictly speaking his father's article should be moved to "Louis Alphonse de Bourbon" and the baby's should be retitled "Louis de Bourbon", using their real names instead of their abolished titles.) Quite aside from my lack of reverence for imaginary titles, I have a sound policy reason for arguing delete/redirect: the kid has not received enough significant coverage in reliable sources to meet WP:BIO. As one would expect of a one-year-old baby. --MelanieN (talk) 00:44, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * BTW the family is barely even French. The father has dual French-Spanish citizenship, and the baby is an American citizen by right of his having been born in New York. --MelanieN (talk) 00:53, 6 December 2011 (UTC)


 * 'Merge into his father's article, per precedent. We've re-hashed this dozens of times.  The kids of nobility and claimants belong in their (notable) parents' articles. Bearian (talk) 02:26, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.