Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Love's Journey


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. — Mr. Stradivarius  (have a chat) 07:34, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Love's Journey

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The author of this book, Rashmi Singh (user:rrashmissingh), has been engaging in self-promotion and has repeatedly attempted to create autobiography (as "Singh Rashmi" or "Rashmi Singh") and create promotional articles for each of the individual books. The notability of this person or the books has yet to be established. There have been complaints Wikiquette assistance/archive122 as these have been repeatedly submitted to (and declined in) WP:AFC and there appear to be multiple IP's and userid's in use. User:Love's Journey should likely be taken to WP:SOCK investigation as possibly being user:rrashmissingh; although the point may be moot as the userid is blocked, there's also a mess of IPs involved. Wikipedia is not a suitable venue for this user to promote her own books. K7L (talk) 17:42, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment If someone poses as the President of America, will you believe it? And makes used id BbrackkObamma? Then why you are deviated to believe that this user is the author herself? It is so because it is easy for you to believe the same. When Sitush doesn't know whether she is Hindu or Christian and deleted 'Hinduism' as her religion only because she studied in convent schools then I think such kind of assumptions is possible. Well, in India, there are thousands of convents and mostly Hindus are studying there. So if someone says, he/she is the P.M. of India and makes id's as Pmpm, will you believe it? I think some crank user must have done so, probably any of her fan. Kindly refrain from putting this everywhere as she has been doing this. This shows quite a biased behavior.Ananyaprasad (talk) 11:23, 10 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete I've been trying to find sources to support notability for much of today and there is nothing out there. - Sitush (talk) 17:48, 5 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment: I spent part of yesterday helping the editor Ananyaprasad revamp this article for AfC and passed it earlier today. I wasn't aware of previous attempts by other editors to write articles related to this particular author. All four of the previously declined AfC nominations for Love's Journey noted that the tone of the writing was too casual, not that sourcing was an issue. The editor who declined the two most recent attempts, Wywin, had noted that "The sources are pretty solid, but the text of the article feels a little too much like an advertisement.". I found the sourcing on Love's Journey to be sufficient to fulfill the first criteria of WP:NB, but the writing was woefully hard to read and formatting was an issue. I approached Ananyaprasad with ways the article could be improved and when he/she clarified the prose, I passed the article. While I applaud efforts to defend against self-promotion on Wikipedia, I do think this particular article has demonstrated the subject's significant coverage in reliable, independent sources about Indian literature. –Mabeenot (talk) 18:19, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 18:24, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 18:24, 5 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Merge to author article. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 20:40, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Your opinion presupposes the results of Articles_for_deletion/Rashmi_Singh_(author). Do you have a preference in the event that the author article is deleted? - Sitush (talk) 21:02, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Well the two articles combined would have stronger sourcing. Too bad the merge wasn't done before the duel-AfD. I'd do it now but would probably be reverted since both are under AfD. But if the author article is deleted, I suppose someone could recreate it as a Frankenstein a combination of previously deleted articles all-in-one combined with all the sourcing in a single article, which would be substantially different from the previously deleted author article. Not saying I'd do that but just seems unfair to "divide and conquer" with a duel-AfD when these two combined would be a pretty decent article. I don't think it was done on purpose, just how it worked out. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 16:03, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, there are three AfD's (Articles for deletion/Pustak Mahal, her publisher's article is also a WP:COI nightmare of self-promotion where removing the advertising left basically nothing). Rashmi Singh appears to have been editing there too in order to promote her own books; there's also a user:Aman Arora PR (Aman Arora was "Manager Public Relations at Pustak Mahal" in 2010, when the edits were made, per LinkedIn) editing that article. There's also a long string of proposals ("Singh Rashmi", "Rashmi Singh", "Rashmi Singh Author" plus the names of each individual book) which were declined in WP:AFC through multiple resubmissions without seeing the light of day as articles. This looks to be three registered userid's, a long list of dynamic IP's (mostly in the same 117.22x.xxx.xxx range) and multiple pages; the decision to create this mess (instead of just one article, using only the info in independent reliable sources, citing the source and remaining neutral) is the author's alone. K7L (talk) 16:36, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Just because there was articles being made on Rashmi Singh and Love''s Journey by a novice maker or editor, it did not mean that the author might have herselsef tried. Anyone imposing as her could have done so-though i am not sure. But yes attempts were made and I guess everyone is allowed to make attempts. I don't think so it was the author herself as the one who was making it before has clearly said that this kept the name rrashmisingh as to let ppl knpw sumthing sumthing- ahatever.. I think the book deserves to be be here so KEEP it- rest all on you people. Ananyaprasad (talk) 01:32, 6 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Next, I think it can never be the the author herself as to make user names like Loves Journey! Without evidence we can't say anything. It is all supposition. So we must see it in frsh light and check if the book desrves to be here, we can keep it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ananyaprasad (talk • contribs) 01:37, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * While surfing Wikipedia, I have found almost all Indian famous books without references! See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Night_@_the_Call_Center http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_2020:_Love,_Corruption,_Ambition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Young_India_Wants
 * Only I see the articles are filled with synopsis/story without any referencedAnanyaprasad (talk) 08:25, 6 October 2012 (UTC) So in such case at least the tag of deletion should be removed as Love's Journey has! Ananyaprasad (talk) 08:25, 6 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Please go through some more famous Indian books and let me know how they have been included before you delete Love's Journey. They are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Thoughts_%28Shobhaa_De_novel%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Thoughts_%28Shobhaa_De_novel%29
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialite_Evenings So pointed earlier by thatTokyogir that Indian books and Indian authors do not have good coverage is true. Before you decide anything for this novel you'll have to redo your entire wikipedia(talk) (talk) So, I think (talk) is correct that solid and reliable sources are valuable, even if one or two. Ananyaprasad (talk) 09:50, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ananyaprasad, you need to take a read of the essay called Other Stuff Exists. Your arguments concerning the state of other articles is commonly put forward in deletion discussions but, really, has no merit whatsoever. - Sitush (talk) 11:00, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok Thanks for the guidance,Ananyaprasad (talk) 11:11, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The book very well meets this criteria as listed for notability for Books 'A book is generally notable if it verifiably meets through reliable sources, one or more of the following criteria: The book has been the subject[1] of multiple, non-trivial[2] published works appearing in sources that are independent of the book itself.[3] This includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, other books, television documentaries and reviews. Some of these works should contain sufficient critical commentary to allow the article to grow past a simple plot summary. This excludes media re-prints of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book.[4]' Refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28books%29.Ananyaprasad (talk) 14:27, 9 October 2012 (UTC)


 * The Economic Times and The Telegraph Calcutta hence verifies it. It is independent of press releases, flap copy, or other publications where the author, its publisher, agent, or other self-interested parties advertise or speak about the book. Ananyaprasad (talk) 14:27, 9 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete as a promotional piece. Needs significant coverage in reliable independent sources, or else it fails the WP:GNG. Vcessayist (talk) 01:58, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Borderline delete. There appears to be one reliable source (the review in the Economic Times) that discusses the book in detail. The Telegraph, of course, is a reliable source, but it only briefly mentions the book. The rest appear to be blogs and other SPS, and thus don't meet WP:RS. The book does not seem to appear in WorldCat, unless I'm just searching badly; however, if memory serves, Indian books and libraries are not as well covered there. If, however, even one more solid, clear review in a reliable source were available, I'd change this to a keep, per WP:GNG and WP:NBOOK. Perhaps this is a case where the article should be deleted for now until such time as it receives wider critical review (if it ever does). Qwyrxian (talk) 22:57, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Thanks for understanding the fact that Indian books are not covered so widely. Though the author's another book Taming the Restless Mind is there in the Worldcat but I am very sorry to say that the article for its creation was hastily deleted before it could move to main space or even discussed properly. No bad feelings but I have been surfing Wikipedia and have been putting facts together. If you read the article of The Telegraph Calcutta little seriously, you'll find that Love's Journey has been mentioned in three to four times and with sufficient references of its story and the Protagonist, Jennifer. But I know, all depends on a general consensus. Next, I am citing the third link of a notable on line site Oneindia.in http://www.boldsky.com/insync/pulse/2012/rashmi-singh-author-interview-030960.html If at all you people are not satisfied well and good! In fact Love's Journey has more reliable and independent citations than many of the books present on Wikipedia, hence a request to all the editors to not make it a question of ego.Ananyaprasad (talk) 03:11, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Ananyapprasad, you have been involved in other discussions where the WP:OSE essay has been mentioned. It seems not to be sinking in. Furthermore, you are trying to use the same crappy sources for this book as for the author's own article, which is also up for deletion. One India, for example, is often found to plagiarise of other India news sources (and Wikipedia). As someone implies above, if that is all you have the the two articles perhaps should be merged. It is flimsy and it is PR fluff. - Sitush (talk) 03:18, 10 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks Sitush. It was my way of explaining things in a gentleman's way! Finally, I know it all depends on the editors. You can do whatever you think best. Ananyaprasad (talk) 03:30, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete: No evidence of substatial coverage in relaiable independent secondary sources. All I see is WP:LOTSOFSOURCES, which turn out to be book reviews and interviews in rather low quality tabloids with deceptively high-sounding names like the Economic Times and the Telegraph of Calcutta and blogs, none of which pass WP:RS. Most of the material seems to ultimately derive from self-promotional press releases. My own searches turned up nothing even faintly promising. Even taken together, they do little to establish notability. Perhaps, some day, reliable sources will cover this book, at which time this article can be recreated. But that day is not yet here, and WP:TOOSOON applies for the time being. The article in its present state will not be a useful starting point for a future well-referenced article, and can be deleted in its entirety with no loss to the project. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 08:35, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Sorry to say but it seems you are trying to bring down the names respectable Indian newspapers. Your reasononing shows that you have no idea about these publications. You have written book reviews and interviews in rather low quality tabloids with deceptively high-sounding names like the Economic Times and the Telegraph of Calcutta Why don't you check the links yourself and see if they are deceptive? And I think you should feel sorry for pulling down the names of respectable newspapers of any countryAnanyaprasad (talk) 10:33, 11 October 2012 (UTC) Next Dominus please read this about The Economic Times The Economic Times is an English-language Indian daily newspaper published by the Bennett, Coleman & Co. Ltd.. It is the world's second most widely read English-language business newspaper, after the Wall Street Journal.[2] The Economic Times was started in 1961. It is the most popular and widely read financial daily in India, read by more than 8 lakh (800,000) people. The Economic Times is published simultaneously from 12 cities—Mumbai, Bangalore, Delhi, Chennai, Kolkata, Lucknow, Hyderabad, Jaipur, Ahmedabad, Nagpur, Chandigarh, and Pune.Ananyaprasad (talk) 10:52, 11 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment - I found source coverage of the book "Love's Journey" by Michael Gurian. I did not find source coverage for "Love's Journey" by Rashmi Singh. Oddly as it sounds, we may need to run the Economic Times and the Telegraph sources through WP:RSN. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 13:03, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.