Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Love $ Greed


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 22:11, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Love $ Greed

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Non notable film, with no independent 3rd party reviews. Donaldd23 (talk) 16:23, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Donaldd23 (talk) 16:23, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Donaldd23 (talk) 16:23, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Donaldd23 (talk) 16:23, 5 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep Potential sources,  ,  ,  ,   †  Encyclopædius  11:44, 6 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete All sources pointed to by Encyclopædius are trivial except for source 1 which appears to be a one paragraph summary of the film. Source 2 merely lists that the film exists and then gives Bashar Shbib over a dozen producing credits for his work on the film (also no indication that CFO is a reliable source and not a wiki-esque databse). Source 3 list the film and its cast but provides no commentary or context, website appears to be a sketchier version of iMDB. Source 4 is a one sentence reference to the film. Source 5 is a one sentence reference and source 6 just names the film in a list of Bashar's films. I cannot find evidence of reliable, non-trivial sources existing through a google search. Happy to change my vote if someone can point to such sources existing, but, as far as I can see, they don't. Samsmachado (talk) 16:28, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep The french wiki article about the film says that the film in competition at the Montréal World Film Festival in 1991. It was considered, at the time, an A-list festival. I guess most of the sources and critiques of the film are in french. Eshko Timiou (talk) 17:21, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. I looked for something substantial but there is nothing out there that could possibly satisfy WP:NFILM. All the sources proffered in the article or above by Encyclopædius or bumped upon online are scarce & trivial mentions in film listings, unworthy of consideration. Geeeting nominated for some award is nothing like winning it. But even so, there's nothing out there dedicated to this film specifically. And I speak French fluently. -The Gnome (talk) 07:56, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   12:34, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep. I added a translation of the French version. The film was entered in an important festival, and was reviewed in depth by various magazines. Notable enough. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:35, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep. Enough sources and award nominations exist. Expertwikiguy (talk) 20:27, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Care to point out when and where was the film nominated for an award? Getting the film on a festival program is not the same as being nominated for an award. As to the French Wikipedia entry, it is equally bereft of sources indicating notability. The proffered sources are almost all typical listings such as this, peppered with irrelevancies (e.g.: Fourlanty, Eric, "Au bout du film", Voir, 1991; or this). We have a film hat has sunk without a trace. -The Gnome (talk) 20:42, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
 * According to Éric Fourlanty in the weekly Voir, the film was an official entry at the Montreal World Film Festival. It was reviewed in Voir, 24 images, Séquences, Variety, L'actualité and La Presse. It was notable in 1991. Once notable always notable. Aymatth2 (talk) 21:20, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Again: A film participating in a film festival does not mean that the film is nominated for an award, as the Keep suggestions have claimed. Neither does such a participation per se confer notability. The free monthly alternative weekly Voir did not review the film, which was simply mentioned as an entry to a film festival. Nowhere do we have reviews by Variety, L'actualité, or  Séquences. And the link attributed to La Presse takes us to an entirely different film (Trilogy). It was not notable then; it is not notable now. -The Gnome (talk) 19:14, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The quotes from Variety, L'actualité and La Presse are taken from this archive of Oneira Pictures International, an indie production company. Scroll down to the entry on Love $ Greed and you will find them. These reviews from almost 30 years ago are not online, but they certainly exist. Once notable always notable. Aymatth2 (talk) 20:54, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * In other words, all we have of the alleged "reviews" are one-sentence blurbs cited in the web page of some production company. Yet, you are certain the reviews "certainly exist" when they could be anything from a multi-page feature to a one-liner in the week's cinema listings. I'm sorry but, though the effort is admirable, we cannot establish notability like this, neither for the time it got released, nor for now. It may be a fine filmic work for all I know but Wikipedia is not a collection of random information and it's not a depository of record. -The Gnome (talk) 17:16, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Any news on those "award nominations"? -The Gnome (talk) 17:16, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
 * This film has definitely never been an "award nominee" in the sense that's relevant to our notability criteria for films. To be fair, the confusion results from IMDb's structure; the way they do things, every film that screens in a competitive stream at a film festival is always automatically tagged as a "nominee" for that stream's final award, regardless of whether it was ever actually under any serious consideration by the award jury or not. (For instance, any feature film that screens at the Toronto International Film Festival can get tagged as a "nominee" for the People's Choice Award, completely without regard to whether it ever actually had a prayer of winning that.) So film festival awards don't work like Oscars or Canadian Screen Awards: for the industry awards, being shortlisted is enough and actually being the winner isn't necessary, but for film festival awards being tagged by IMDb as a "nominee" is not a notability criterion in and of itself, and the final winners (or honorable mentions) are the only films that get to claim "notable because award" out of it. As always, of course, films that don't win awards at film festivals can still claim notability on other bases — they just don't get to claim that they're notable because of an award nomination per se, because simply being eligible for consideration isn't the same thing as actually being a nominee. Bearcat (talk) 14:10, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment: This page has been the target of numerous attacks by sockpuppets, most probably operated by the same person, who are trying for a non-admin close of Keep. A cursory look at the History of this page will confirm it. -The Gnome (talk) 14:35, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:47, 21 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.