Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Love Story (Mariah Carey song)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   Redirect to album until (reliable, third party) sources confirm this as a single, and it charts. Which it will probably do. Until then, no special treatment. Keeper  |   76   |   Disclaimer  17:18, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Love Story (Mariah Carey song)

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Fails WP:MUSIC and WP:N as of now. Won't be released for two months, maybe longer. Lack of third party sources for WP:V. Also, the main source given is a rapidshare mp3 download, which, I.M.O is non notable due to the fact that no one knows exactly where that information was originally found. Delete Undeath (talk) 06:38, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge with album - does not warrent its own article, doesn't meet WP:MUSIC criteria in that it hasn't been released yet, and as such, cannot possibly be on the top hits list. Atyndall93  |  talk  10:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 *  Keep Redirect to E=MC² - Although currently this does not comply with the notability criteria per WP:Music, every Mariah Carey single ever released has its own article and so will this one. There's little point in deleting it when the article will simply be re-created in a month. Per WP:Music, songs are notable if they "have been ranked on national or significant music charts". Carey has had 18 US number-one hits to date and the odds that this will be her 19th are good. Given the artist's record, if it doesn't hit #1 it will be even more notable. Debate (talk) 10:54, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That's just it. By keeping it, you are playing the odds. Anyway, as it stands, the sources are terrible and there is no media coverage of it. Undeath (talk) 11:41, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Changed to redirect to E=MC². Debate (talk) 15:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge to E=MC² (Mariah Carey album)|E=MC² I agree it will probably end up with its own article, but there's no point in violating the "no guessing" policy when its will be trivial to break this back into its own article. I suspect as decent sources appear this will happen naturally. Xymmax (talk) 13:12, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Redirect to album, simply due to WP:CRYSTAL issues. There's been no confirmation, outside of one interview, that this will be a single.  On her previous album, the single that was talked about as being the first one released, "Say Somethin'", became her fifth.  It can always be recreated when it's confirmed.  SKS2K6 (talk) 14:42, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete I'm not voting redirect because of:
 * i) the improbability of the search string Love Story (Mariah Carey song) being entered;
 * ii) the fact that articles such as this one are created by rabid Mariah Carey fans who are all trying to outdo each other in being the first one to report on a new development (ie, new single, new album, new tour, marriage etc) and, in the process, will use absolutely any source whatsoever they can find on the topic;
 * iii) the ease at which an above mentioned fan can go into the history of the article serving as a redirect and quickly restore the previous text citing a newly Googled Perez Hilton blog about the same single compared to the hassle of the rest of us possibly going through this same exact debate all over again in order to turn it back into a redirect. It's a beginning of a vicious cycle;
 * iv) the dangerous precedent we may set by redirecting this instead of deleting it whereby an above mentioned fan will create an article about every single song on this album, again citing blogs and radio interviews, and starting a dozen AfD debates with a dozen resulting redirects that all have the potential of being reverted back to their article state as explained in point iii. SWik78 (talk • contribs) 17:37, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment If you would like to see for yourself what kind of mass creation of song articles I spoke of in my above explanation, please see Articles for deletion/Push Up on Me. SWik78 (talk • contribs) 20:05, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep: will we do this for every Mariah single? They always gets nominated, deleted, and two days later confirmed as a single. With this much info already, its a sure sign that it will be released. Thankyoubaby (talk) 05:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment:Then please show us this info. SKS2K6 (talk) 06:21, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment its a sure sign that it will be released??? Have you ever read WP:Verifiability or WP:Reliable sources? SWik78 (talk • contribs) 12:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Comment I point out that there are thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of recording singles that have not undgone the scrutinity of this particular article about an actually popular performer. Many many hundreds of less popular performers slide by with un-sourced, un-cited mentions of their singles. There is no comprehensive process in wikipedia for looking at all of the thousands of singles listed here. On that basis, this is an exceptionally odd scrutiny, and is not in the least a measure of the scrutiny needed for all musical singles and recordings needed for wikipedia. -- Yellowdesk (talk) 02:07, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Just because we don't do that with every single does not mean that we should not. They all must follow WP:MUSIC/WP:N and this does not. Undeath (talk) 02:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Yellowdesk makes a fair point. The effort put into nominating this article for afd and debating it seems unnecessarily bureaucratic to me when the article will almost certainly simply be reintroduced in a month or so, at most. Sure, by the letter of the policy it may not yet comply with the guidelines, but that would also apply to hundreds of thousands of other articles around here. Improving (or deleting) a few of those would be much better uses of people's time than this has been. It seems to me that a case can be made that this debate is unnecessary WikiLawyering. Debate (talk) 02:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: I see the point, but to be honest, it's simply because there's no proof that this will be a single. And it's probably getting scrutinized because Carey is a popular performer, as popular performers would get more page visits, which means related articles would get more page visits as well.  All that's holding up this page is one radio interview with Carey stating that "Love Story" will be the next single.  Although it's evidence (I'm not claiming the opposite), things can easily change.  Maybe Island Records will change singles.  Maybe Carey will stop promotion of the album to focus on the marriage.  Or maybe "Love Story" will become the next single.  Until there's proof of this song being a single, it should not exist as a Wikipedia page, as it asserts no notability otherwise.  Yes, it would be silly to debate the notability of a confirmed single, but what we have here is pretty much not that. To me, it seems like this is becoming a WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument. SKS2K6 (talk) 02:46, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Whether or not the article stays should be based on Wikipedia policies such as WP:N, WP:V, and WP:RS. If you think the article should stay because you disagree with the existing policies or procedures, this is not the place for that discussion. SWik78 (talk • contribs) 17:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, please take a peek at what this version of E=MC² claims to be the third single. Can everyone now see the reason for reliable sources? SWik78 (talk • contribs) 18:14, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions.   -- Fabrictramp (talk) 00:16, 11 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I vote for delete. Although Carey did indeed state that Love Story will be the next single, it is at least 2 more months until a third single will be released. This time frame is enough to justify deletion - in 2005, for example, Carey stated that "Say Somethin'" would be the third single from the album emancipation of mimi, yet it turned out that the more popular shake it off was chosen as the third single (Say somethin', instead, became a 5th single). This is noteworthy, given that artist themself either yield to popular demand or to a record company's demands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.48.205.162 (talk) 03:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Delete - it's pure speculation and shows unprofessionalism of the author —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.191.99.10 (talk) 07:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Keep - hey guys, i just watched ellen, and mariah was there....and she personally said that Love Story will be the third single...so, u can remove that annoying deletion sign on top of the page..RIHANNA RELOADED (talk) 17:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Artist statements are not reliable sources.  They have very little control over the order of singles.  Those decisions are made at the management level of the respective label - in this case, Island Def Jam.  Redirect to the album's article until such time in the future that this is released as a single, if it is actually serviced as a single.  --InDeBiz1 (talk) 23:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.