Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Love Systems


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Keilana | Parlez ici 23:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Love Systems

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A seduction company. Article written by a group of sock puppets with probable COI. Is it notable? See also Nick Savoy. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 23:11, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Love Systems is extremely notable. They have the instructor who won Keys to the VIP, they have Savoy, who was a consultant to the Vh-1 show, who wrote Magic Bullets, who wrote the Routines Manual, they are one of the largest companies in the industry, and a big media presence.  I have no affiliation with the company and can prove it on request, just email me.Camera123456 (talk) 00:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. The last is empty talk - how can I e-mail you? You have not set up an e-mail address. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 01:27, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Sorry, feel free to email me at Pugwash112@yahoo.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Camera123456 (talk • contribs) 19:12, March 31, 2008
 * Comment. Stop wasting our time - I tried that e-mail address address and got: "Sorry your message to cannot be delivered. This account has been disabled or discontinued [#102]. - mta309.mail.mud.yahoo.com". (Just in case that was a genuine mistake - you can e-mail me via the link on my user page.) -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 00:12, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Odd.  My email works - yahoo must have had a hiccough.  Try it again?  I will try to find your email to email you now as well.Camera123456 (talk) 22:22, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. You don't have to "find my e-mail" - follow this link. Re your comment below, I would agree: getting involved with Wikipedia definitely has aspects of a Kafka novel. -- RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 01:08, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I emailed you. Let me know if you didn't get it.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Camera123456 (talk • contribs) 21:03, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Love Systems, while in my opinion the absolute worst name in the history of seduction companies, is notable simply for being the largest company in the seduction community. Furthermore, as I wrote in why Savoy should be included in a list of notable instructors, Pre The Game I was a natural, I wanted to learn how to work group sets and get threesomes. Strengthening the transition phase so that you could use it to open after a functional or situational opener, or just dive into conversations, is exactly what I was doing before the VAH. There's also a lot of great stuff Savoy added in reworking qualification, which is also what I was doing before the VAH. What they've done is make it a topic of conversation rather than BHRR, and made it come in waves rather than just one phase by itself. In short he's made the game a lot more seamless with natural game, which for me is the goal, just take what we do naturally and refine it. The 6 types of relationships and learning how to frame those different relationship expectations before sleeping with your girl is also something I haven't heard anyone talk of before Savoy. He's definitely added things to the community. I'd say that Sinn, Captain Jack, and El Topo, who just departed, are at the forefront in Seduction Community Technology. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TruthToPower69 (talk • contribs) 06:37, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Keep Love Systems is notable including:


 * Media presence (articles listed in the article, more at www.lovesystems.com/media and www.lovesystems.com/publications
 * Keys to the VIP (Love Systems mentioned in the Wikipedia Keys to the VIP article, go to youtube and look up Love Systems, it was a (self-identified) Love Systems instructor who won the show
 * It's (the bigger) half of the old Mystery Method. On the Wikipedia Mystery Method page Love Systems is mentioned
 * They published two of the more influential books in the seduction community - Magic Bullets and the Routines Manual - both are highly googleable
 * They just held the largest Conference in the seduction industry, including as guests Pickup 101, Carlos Xuma, and other guys listed on the "notable members of the seduction community"
 * The notable members of the seduction community (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Seduction_community) has since two years ago been talking about the need for a Savoy page and Love Systems is the company he is primarily involved with
 * Or go to the big seduction forums like www.theattractionforums.com or www.pick-up-artist-forum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Camera123456 (talk • contribs) 19:12, March 31, 2008


 * Comment: The only votes so far came from two single-purpose accounts. — BradV 23:24, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

What is a single-purpose account? I don't know who Truth is and I essentially rewrote his page but I have posted and edited a lot of stuff in the seduction community on wiki (and on other subjects too). I used to just use my IP address - you see a bunch of edits on the Mystery Method page with that. It's the one that starts 72. Camera123456 (talk) 00:04, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Love Systems not notable? That's kind of funny. Are you guys aware that Love Systems IS the same people as Mystery Method? WikiPUA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.96.34.27 (talk) 05:14, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. Walled garden, no reliable third-party sources provided. No convincing claim of third-party notability. —David Eppstein (talk) 04:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the user who wrote, "Keep!!!" Savoy is an anchor member of the seduction community. He was mentioned in the Game, consulted on the most popular television show about seduction, and has appeared in the press. Also, he runs one of the largest seduction companies in the world. Deleting him would be bowing to his competitors who are recommending deletion strictly for their own personal financial gain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bullet silver (talk • contribs) 16:00, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Keep Why does everyone who wants it deleted make claims and then not back them up? It's not a walled garden - there are important links to and from other seduction community pages like The Mystery Method, Keys to the VIP, Notable Members of the Seduction Community, the Pickup Artist TV show, etc. I would turn this around and ask what relevant pages you'd expect to see Love Systems on and don't? I had the idea of making the page (someone else got there first) when I kept seeing Love Systems referenced but they didn't have a page (and guys like Piclkup101 did). Camera123456 (talk) 18:25, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * How many times do you plan on voting? — BradV 18:29, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Seriously. Some of us like to contribute here and there on Wikipedia, we don't spend all day obsessing over it.  I thought you were supposed to state your opinion before each comment so people could identify your position.  So I was wrong.  The reason some people get frustrated here is that they feel they've entered a Kafka novel.  Why can't people just be friendly and respectful and not sarcastic?  I don't get paid for this; I just put a couple hours in one day to correct a major omission (tiny guys in the seduction community have big pages and LS had none even though it's mentionned on all of these other pages).  No one ever responds to my substantive points, all people do is make snarky comments about my formatting.  Seriously...is this what Wikipedia is supposed to be? For example, I see comments that it is a walled garden or that my account is "single purpose".  I have responded to both. (for reference with the latter, go to the mystery method page, before I created an account I was the 72.whatever IP address.  Camera123456 (talk) 22:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete. Appears to fail the notability guidelines at WP:ORG. I'd be willing to reconsider if third-party reliable sources show up. — BradV 22:37, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment I can't for the life of me figure out why these sources don't qualify as notable, especially in comparison to other seduction leaders who are far less well-known and whose pages are on here. Even according to the wikipedia guidelines these are notable.  But if it helps, Savoy (the President of Love Systems)'s previously taped episode on the Dr Phil show is airing on Friday, April 11.  But I suppose that "doesn't count" either.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Camera123456 (talk • contribs) 02:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.