Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lowepro (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Arguments based on gng do not address NCORP concerns and an article on a brand should be sourced to coverage of rhe brand not individual products to avoid OR. Spartaz Humbug! 22:58, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Lowepro
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Re-nominating this article 9 years on. Many of the cited sources are merely reviews of products as is typical for manufacturers of goods sold at retail; there are passing mentions of the company here and there, but it lacks the substantial independent third-party coverage in reliable sources that are looked for in WP:NCORP. The page remains heavily weighted toward promotional content and relies for its non-promotional statements mostly on other than reliable sources and press releases. A search for anything that might make it notable, in terms of its impact as a company or any important events it might have played a role in, comes up empty. It's run of the WP:MILL. The previous discussion resulted in no consensus. I suggest it be deleted. FalconK (talk) 08:39, 16 January 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗  plicit  14:32, 23 January 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:18, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. FalconK (talk) 08:39, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Products-related deletion discussions. FalconK (talk) 08:39, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. FalconK (talk) 08:39, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 20:12, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete This is an advertisement. I note that about half the article is a discussion of which model might fit a particular person's needs. That's helpful and appropriate, but for their website, which is where anyone would look for it.`` DGG ( talk ) 07:12, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I removed unsourced content or content sourced to self-published sources from the "Products" section. The section now has: "The Slingshot range is aimed at professional news and sports photographers,[6] providing easy access to cameras for rapid shooting; CNet found the SlingShot 300 AW Camera Bag offered good protection and easy access.[7] The FastPack is a rucksack-style range, which CNet found less refined.[8]" and is sourced to Amateur Photographer and CNET. This is neutral and balanced and is not advertising. Cunard (talk) 08:25, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.  The article provides 1,056 words about Lowepro. The article notes: "Just about every serious photographer in the world knows about Lowepro. Lowepro camera bags are sold in more than 60 countries. They have been lugged up Mount Everest and hiked into the Alaskan back country. And most of them came from an unimpressive warehouse on Guerneville Road in Santa Rosa. Lowepro is one of the biggest camera bag dealers in the world. Its parent company is based in Toronto, but since the early '90s, all of the design and distribution work has been done by about 25 employees based at the Lowepro headquarters in Santa Rosa. ... Lowepro started in 1981 as a division of Lowe Alpine Systems, an outdoor-gear maker in Colorado. That company was started by three brothers who were outdoor enthusiasts."  The article provides 220 words of coverage about Lowepro. The article notes: "Backpackers and nature photographers have relied on Lowepro's versatile and rugged camera-bag systems for 30 years. The packs' hooks, loops and malleable partitions make them adaptable to any trip, and their nearly bulletproof nylon skins and cushioned compartments are both protective and lightweight - perfect for the trail or mountaintop."  The article notes: "Lowepro was originally part of a company founded in about 1967 by Colorado-based Greg Lowe, whose innovations included internal-frame backpacks. That part of the company became Lowe Alpine, owned by U.K.-based Equip Outdoor Technologies Holdings, which also has the Rab brand of outdoor clothing and sleeping bags, founded by British mountaineer Rab Carrington. Lowepro is owned by DayMen Canada Acquisition ULC, based in Luxembourg, with an office in Toronto. The company's main products were originally designed for professional photographers, but Lowepro is expanding to build packs for drones, students and travelers."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Lowepro to pass Notability (organizations and companies), which requires "significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 08:25, 31 January 2022 (UTC) </li></ul>
 * Response Cunard's grasp of NCORP is worringly deficient despite several editors attempting to assist him in grasping some of the peculiarities of NCORP guidelines. For here, Cunard is ignoring the fact that the topic is a company while the references he's relying on talk about the product. Fails CORPDEPTH. The last reference from the North Bay Business Journal from 2016 is an advertorial for bags to carry drones. Fails ORGIND. <b style="font-family: Courier; color: darkgreen;"> HighKing</b>++ 19:53, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I have addressed the company versus brand topic below. I do not agree that the profile from the North Bay Business Journal is an advertorial, which is defined as "an advertisement in the form of editorial content". It is a profile of the company from a reputable publication. It has a positive tone and includes quotes from people affiliated with the company, but there is no evidence that the profile in the North Bay Business Journal is an advertisement. Cunard (talk) 07:15, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * It is a "Journalism advertorial" which is defined as The organization wants to attract media attention to a subject or themselves. There isn't one sentence in that entire article that is "clearly attributable" to a source unrelated to the company. But that said ... I agree with your point below about it being a "brand" and not a "company" ... so I'm not sure if NCORP applies anymore although I don't know for sure. <b style="font-family: Courier; color: darkgreen;"> HighKing</b>++ 13:48, 2 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment: Pinging Articles for deletion/Lowepro participants:, , , and . Cunard (talk) 08:25, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete *Update* I'm leaving the Delete !vote because I think a "brand" falls under NCORP guidelines but I'm not 100% sure. If it doesn't and some other guideline of GNG applies, I'll revisit my !vote. Just to be clear, there's a lot of reviews about their products. Unless those references continue in-depth information on the company, they don't assist in establishing notability of the company. The appropriate guideline for both is NCORP. WP:NCORP requires multiple sources (at least two) of deep or significant coverage with in-depth information *on the company* and (this bit is important!) containing "Independent Content". "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. That means, nothing that relies on company information or announcements or interviews, etc. None of the references in the article meet the criteria. I have been unable to find any references that meet NCORP criteria, topic fails WP:NCORP. <b style="font-family: Courier; color: darkgreen;"> HighKing</b>++ 19:53, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The article is about the brand (the company's goods), not the company. From Lowepro: "Lowepro is a brand of carrying bags". If the article was about the company, it would say "Lowepro is a company that sells carrying bags". There is significant coverage about the brand through the numerous product reviews and through the sources I provided. From brand, "A brand is a name ... that identifies one seller's good or service as distinct from those of other sellers." I consider a brand to be about a set of a company's products (so product reviews can be used to establish notability), not about the company itself. If you think otherwise, is there any alternative to deletion per Deletion policy to reframing the article to be about the products so that this can be retained? It does not make sense to delete an article about a brand that has received numerous product reviews just because the company itself did not receive significant coverage. The brand is notable, not the company. Cunard (talk) 07:15, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Response There's an "Infobox Company" and a "History of the company" section so it looked to me like an article on a company which originally was part of Lowe Alpine (which was acquired by Rab (company) which was in turn acquired by "Equip Outdoor Technologies"). But I understand your point - despite the structure of the article, there doesn't appear to be a *company* of this name (correct me if I'm wrong), only a brand name. At some point the "Lowepro" brand was acquired by another company and is now owned by Vitec Group (which owns a ton of brands and has no wikipedia article). I'm not sure which guideline applies for a brand .... perhaps NCORP should still apply? <b style="font-family: Courier; color: darkgreen;"> HighKing</b>++ 13:48, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with your analysis that there is no company by the name of Lowepro, only a brand name. I consider a brand to be a product or perhaps more accurately, a set of products. I think the relevant guideline to apply for a brand is still NCORP, specifically Notability (organizations and companies). The brand Lowepro has received significant coverage through numerous product reviews so it passes NCORP. Cunard (talk) 06:18, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
 * It still isn't straight forward though. The problem with that approach though is that there aren't any reviews on the "brand" per se, only individual reviews for individual products. So we run the risk of WP:OR in trying to create a "brand" topic. <b style="font-family: Courier; color: darkgreen;"> HighKing</b>++ 16:09, 3 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep I'm happy to keep this per WP:GNG, I feel Cunard has successfully demonstrated notability. The problems identified by the initial delete vote appear to have been resolved. NemesisAT (talk) 12:40, 6 February 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.