Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lu Sheng-yen (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. based on recent sources brought to this discussion. Liz Read! Talk! 23:41, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Lu Sheng-yen
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Fails GNG. There is simply not enough coverage of this person in reliable sources, most sources being used in the article are primary. The article makes some grandiose statements about him, but none of them are reliably sourced (some were inserted by SPAs) so it's difficult to know how influential this person actually is in China/Taiwan. SparklyNights (t) 16:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Buddhism, China, Hong Kong,  and Taiwan. SparklyNights (t) 16:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Idk yet. Dude gets news coverage. I got lots of hits on google news (four of which on the first page are from this year and setn.com, the RSness of which I'm uncertain about). Also got hits on google scholar from Buddhism sources. I'm on lunch so I don't really have time to read Chinese and assess whether the sources contribute to notability, but they're there. Hope to circle back this weekend. Folly Mox (talk) 18:53, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * FYI Sources 33 and 36 are the only green ones per the source tool, looks like a whole bunch of iffy sourcing, but this is just my quick scan; I'll perhaps look later. Oaktree b (talk) 21:27, 16 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete or merge - this person has "references" largely because of the grandiose claims of primary sources. When the ones from the organization are removed, this article gets a lot thinner. I think this should either be deleted or merged into the True Buddha School article as a subsection. Kazamzam (talk) 12:38, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Notability (people), which says: "People are presumed if they have received significant coverage in  that are,  of each other, and .If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability." Sources   The book notes: "The True Buddha School has arisen out of the life and experience of Master Lu Sheng-Yen (盧勝彥, b. 1945). Born in Jiayi 嘉義 County, Taiwan, Master Lu is the author of more than 240 books, writing extensively on his own religious experience and cultivation. Lu received his tertiary education in a military college in Taiwan and was trained as a surveyor. He had a deep religious experience in 1969 that led him from his Presbyterian Christian upbringing to a period of seeking, studying, and learning Buddhism (Yao 1994; Tam 2001; Melton 2007). This period lasted for some twelve years during which time Master Lu began to openly accept disciples to teach them Buddhism. Near the end of this period, he also founded the True Buddha School (first known as the Lingxian 靈仙 School) and moved from his native Taiwan to the United States, a symbol of his intention to spread Buddhism internationally. ... Much in the same fashion, Master Lu was an onlooker in 1969 when he accompanied his mother to a temple where there was a medium serving the community. Master Lu was suddenly "possessed" and was given, without his prior consent, the ability to see and communicate with the spiritual world. After this miraculous encounter, Master Lu continued to receive the nocturnal visits of an invisible master who transmitted to him Daoist and Tantric teachings."  The book notes: "Master Lu Sheng-Yen, the founder of the True Buddha School, one of a small number of relatively new Taiwanese Buddhist groups that have emerged as international movements, was born in 1945 in Jiayi (or Chiai) in south central Taiwan. He attended Chun-Jen Polytechnic College in the 1960s and after completing his work joined the army. Lu was raised as a Presbyterian (the oldest Christian movement in Taiwan); however, in 1969, while visiting a Taiwanese temple, the Palace of the Jade Emperor, he encountered a medium named Qiandai, who was a member of a new Taiwanese group called the Compassion Society, based on worship of Xi Wangmu, the Royal Mother of the West, under the name Jinmu. During her presentation, Qiandai told Lu that the gods of the temple wished him to acknowledge them. Thrown into a state of confusion, he found himself able to communicate with the spirit world. Communications continued daily for the next three years. He also met a Daoist master who ..."  The book notes: "One of the most successful self-proclaimed Chinese masters is Lu Sheng-yen 盧勝彥 (1945–present), who refers to himself as the “Living Buddha Lotus-Born” (Liansheng huo Fo 蓮生活佛), most likely in reference to the great founder of the Nying-ma (rnying ma) school of Tibetan Buddhism, Padmasambhava. He founded in Taiwan a new religious movement called the True Buddha School (Zhen Fo zong 真佛宗), which identifies itself as a Vajrayāna Buddhist tradition, although it also draws heavily from traditional Chinese popular religion, both Buddhist and Daoist. The school now has numerous temples throughout the world, with the majority founded in areas where there is a sizable Chinese community, such as Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Australia, and North America. Lu Sheng-yen currently lives in Redmond, Washington, where the main temple of this school is based. He is a prolific author, and has written, according to one source, one hundred and ten works in Chinese, several of which have been translated into English."</li> </ol>There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Lu Sheng-yen  to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 09:23, 21 November 2023 (UTC) </li></ul> Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 15:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep per Cunard. S5A-0043 Talk 03:21, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:GNG, sources given by Cunard appear reliable. JimRenge (talk) 20:09, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.