Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lucifer Rising (book)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ to Gavin Baddeley. The history will need to be moved to an unambiguous title, but since there are three different suggestions I'll let editors sort that out on their own. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Lucifer Rising (book)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Fails NBOOK and GNG. I was able to find one review from Melody Maker on ProQuest (which I could not actually access, but I'm going to accept it's sigcov), this however is not enough for NBOOK, which needs two. Merge/redirect to author Gavin Baddeley if there aren't more reviews? There are a few sources that are interviews with Baddeley that were printed in many newspapers, and while that would be useful for expanding the article if it passed NBOOK, does not count for notability since they don't provide independent commentary on the book itself. It's halfway there, but I haven't been able to find another review.

FWIW I did remove the sources from the page, but not a single one actually mentioned the book, just about the topics the book covered. PARAKANYAA (talk) 03:06, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. PARAKANYAA (talk) 03:06, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge relevant content to author page without coverage in two independent sources. Astaire (talk) 04:24, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. Fulmard (talk) 06:01, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Merge/redirect to Gavin Baddeley per Deletion policy. This entry from Amazon.com notes: "ReviewFascinating and often shocking but worth the entrance fee for the inclusion of the final interview with murdered metal legend Euronymous alone. --Melody Maker, 2nd Feb, 2000.'The result of six years of intensive research, Lucifer Rising is lavishly illustrated with rare and unusual images, most of which are previously unseen... Baddeley has written a definitive study of a timeless subject allowing his interviewees to speak for themselves while ignoring the well-trodden pathways followed by other less-discerning writers. As a study of the potent blend of the occult and the cult of rock, it s unparalleled. Highly recommended. --Record Collector, January, 2000.'Forgive us, Lord, for this is an entertaining, witty read.' --Maxim, March, 2000." There is a copy of the 51-word Melody Maker review here: "Subtitled 'Sin, Devil Worship And Rock'n'roll', this starts as a history of early Satanism, through medieval black masses, to thrash, death and black metal. And, of course, Marilyn Manson. Fascinating and often shocking - but worth the entrance fee for the inclusion of the final interview with murdered metal legend Euronymous alone." The Melody Maker review is too short to be significant coverage. It is possible this book meets Notability (books) from the Record Collector and Maxim sources, but I do not have access to them. This article in the Evening Standard discusses the book but is largely an interview with the author. I am fine with a redirect without prejudice against restoring the article if significant coverage is verified or found. A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow editors to selectively merge any content that can be reliably sourced to the target article. A redirect with the history preserved under the redirect will allow the redirect to be undone if significant coverage in reliable sources is found in the future. Cunard (talk) 09:30, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete: There are a few books and films with this name, so hard to find reviews about this particular book. I couldn't find anything we can use and the sources given now aren't enough. Oaktree b (talk) 12:12, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment: There is also a Lucifer Rising (novel). I recommend preserving the article's history as I wrote above. To address Oaktree b's comment about there being a few books with this name, we could do this:Move Lucifer Rising (book) to Lucifer Rising (Gavin Baddeley book). Redirect Lucifer Rising (Gavin Baddeley book) to Gavin Baddeley so that the history is preserved under the redirect.Redirect Lucifer Rising (book) to the disambiguation page Lucifer Rising, which can mention both Lucifer Rising (novel) and the Gavin Baddeley book.</ol>Cunard (talk) 09:28, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Cunard The book’s subtitle is “Sin, Devil Worship and Rock'n'Roll” so maybe it could be moved to the title with the subtitle? I forget the preferred style. PARAKANYAA (talk) 09:45, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The relevant guideline for naming book articles is Naming conventions (books) and Naming conventions (books). If we needed to disambiguate Lucifer Rising (book), I think Lucifer Rising (Baddeley book) would be the correct name. But since we are moving the history to be under a redirect, having the title include the book's subtitle would be fine too. Cunard (talk) 08:10, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. PARAKANYAA (talk) 08:12, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Cunard, this is too complicated for an AFD closure. Please focus on what should happen with this specific article and you can work out the other page moves and disambiguation stuff later. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:58, 20 June 2024 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.