Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lugansk People's Republic (Russia)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Legoktm (talk) 05:51, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Lugansk People's Republic (Russia)

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Same reasons as Zaporozhye Oblast (Russia) and Kherson Oblast (Russia). Unnecessary fork with an inherent likelihood of turning into a POV fork, and makes maintenance difficult. Best to keep it within existing articles. Mako001 (C) (T)  🇺🇦 14:57, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military, Politics, Russia,  and Ukraine. Skynxnex (talk) 15:11, 30 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete. Actually, this is not the same as Zaporozhye Oblast (Russia) and Kherson Oblast (Russia), as claimed by the filer. This is because in the case of Lugansk, we have even three articles: Luhansk Oblast, Luhansk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic (Russia). The last two cover exactly the same topic, and so this one should be deleted. Luhansk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic (Russia) are exactly the same subjects. No need for those two separate articles.  Vanjagenije  (talk)  15:26, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Seconded. Glide08 (talk) 19:13, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. I am a bit new to the discussion, however I think like with Carpatho-Ukraine (where it's the same page as a region that was given more autonomy by Czechoslovakia and the region once it was independent) it should just be the same page. Jaylein. (talk) 13:06, 1 October 2022 (UTC) — Jaylein. (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Keep the article describes an entity that has literally been global news. Whether it is recognized internationally, or whatever the prevailing opinion on it's legitimacy, this remains a fact. We must be careful not to conflate Keep with 'supports Russia' and Delete with 'supports Ukraine'. FederalTank (talk) 18:54, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay. But we already have an article about it since April 2014: Donetsk People's Republic. —Michael Z. 05:32, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Please cite the WP policy that supports deleting X because there is an article about the DPR. 89.14.70.34 (talk) 18:07, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:CFORK supports deleting an article about the subject X when there is already an article about the subject X. —Michael Z. 18:47, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep When I was doing this article, my idea was to divide the LPR and DPR into articles about historical semi-recognized quasi-states and regions of Russia. If the consensus is that these articles should be merged, then I will agree with the consensus opinion. PLATEL (talk) 15:30, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete. And we also have Russian occupation of Luhansk Oblast... Overkill of nearly identical articles on the same or very closely related subjects is not beneficial to anyone and risks violating WP:POVFORK. Fram (talk) 15:33, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep The articles Luhansk People's Republic and Lugansk People's Republic (Russia) don't cover the same topic. The first one is about the independent country that existed from 2014 to 2022. The second one is about this the new federal subject within the Russian Federation. Vgaiyfi (talk) 15:37, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete - Per WP:CRYSTALBALL. Even if a separate article for the LPR as a Russian subject were necessary, the annexation has not even entered effect yet. The Duma and Federation Council must first approve the treaties signed, before sending them to Putin to approve them again. These are rubber-stamp actions sure, but they are future rubber-stamp actions. AxolotlsAreCool (talk) 16:25, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep this article will be constantly recreated. It doesn't matter if it doesn't look that notable today, with each passing hour since the annexation more sources will appear and if we start deleting and recreating articles, now that will make maintenance difficult. Super   Ψ   Dro  16:28, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Can it be locked so only experienced/verified editors can change it? Semi-protected I think is the word I'm looking for. Oaktree b (talk) 20:23, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete (or merge, but I'm not sure there is much content to merge), per nom. This is too new to justify a separate spin-off or sub-article. Levivich (talk) 16:42, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment - Best solution would probably be to draftify this along with the other three, especially as Russia hasn't even completed its sham procedures yet. Once we know more about the borders Russia is claiming since the existing ones don't match their actual control, and whether Luhansk and Donetsk will remain "republics" as opposed to a regular oblasts, and all the other relevant particulars, then we can move them back to mainspace and have a situation parallel to Autonomous Republic of Crimea/Republic of Crimea. At that point the "Russian occupation of _____" and old LPR/DPR articles can probably be merged in. PrimaPrime (talk) 17:35, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep This is a government entity which is taking action with government power. I think caution is warranted about overlap of content with several other articles on related concepts, but having Wikipedia articles for major government entities is a norm. This is a major government entity which the world is watching and for which there are sources describing its activities. There seems to be no other Wikipedia article for this concept. That it is competing and disputed with an overlapping entity claiming the same authority is irrelevant for Wikipedia's documentation and general reference purposes.  Bluerasberry   (talk)  17:35, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Clearly a different entity, and in the coming days we'll surely hear more information related to the recent annexation. Thief-River-Faller (talk) 18:46, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge into Luhansk People's Republic. These are the same entity, to the point that I, personally speaking, didn't even expect the psot-annexation DPR and LPR to have new articles. Glide08 (talk) 19:15, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep We should keep this page because it is a different political entity from the ukraine oblasts.Zyxrq (talk) 20:22, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Even though it is all a bit quick. I would expect articles Annexation of.... describing the process in the first instance (the process is not yet completed) I see now Annexation of Southern and Eastern Ukraine and perhaps even Legal/Political status of.... It was done for Crimea so there is a precedent. Selfstudier (talk) 23:48, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong delete/merge It's the same entity as the Luhansk People's Republic we already have an article for. And that article has a sourcing deficit already, the last thing we need to be doing is timeline-forking it. It just opens the door to even more POV issues. Tartan357 (talk) 23:56, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
 * It is not the same entity. The LPR has been an independent country with limited recognition from 2014 to 2022. That is one thing. This new federal subject of the Russian Federation is not an independent country. They are different things. Vgaiyfi (talk) 00:19, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Joining the Russian Federation did not cause it to cease being the same entity. Please acquaint yourself with the concept of federalism. Tartan357 (talk) 00:22, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Okey, let's leave aside politics and POVs. It's a matter of encyclopedic coverage of history. The LPR was a country that exited for 8 years (which was recognized by three countries members of the United Nations). It should have its own article. Now, the situation is about something different, it is a federal subject of the Russian Federation. It makes no sense to merge the articles when there is even a separate article to cover its annexation to Russia. It is as if we were to join the articles of the Republic of Texas and Texas. Vgaiyfi (talk) 00:38, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Nothing I said was political or POV. You are injecting a lot of original thought into this discussion. The fact of the matter is RS consider them the same topic, and that is all that matters at AfD. We don't get to decide that the LPR is more important or historically significant than RS think it is. Tartan357 (talk) 00:42, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep While they are the same entity, it is an article to discuss a new phase in the existence of the LPR. We have articles for Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, Taliban, and Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996–2001) despite these all being the same entity. However, this should be renamed to the main LPR article, with the one about the non-federal subject LPR having (2014–2022) added to it. Serafart (talk) (contributions) 02:52, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong delete - All of these POV forks. Reaper Eternal (talk) 03:31, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete this WP:REDUNDANTFORK and WP:POVFORK. The subject of the article has been around since 2014 and the article about it is Luhansk People's Republic. Some editors have tried to rename that article Luhansk → Lugansk a number of times, and this is just a lame attempt to route around the consensus title. —Michael Z. 05:31, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge the discussion with Articles for deletion/Kherson Oblast (Russia). PLATEL (talk) 06:07, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * This case is different then the case of Kherson Oblast (Russia). Here, we have three article about the same oblast, while in the case of Kherson, there are two.  Vanjagenije  (talk)  11:20, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I think the point is not how many articles there are but whether the Russian entities are distinct. Even if the physical attributes (land, population) are the same, the legal entity is not the same (I am not saying that the creation of the new entity is legal outside of Russia, that's a different issue). Selfstudier (talk) 13:23, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Pause and keep. it is likely Lugansk will become an Oblast and be called Lugansk Oblast within Russia so we should wait, there are Republics but no people Republics in Russia. We should wait for more details. We should keep the page though if it is indeed in the unlikely event to remain the lugansk People's Republic although previous LNR articles could be merged within a big page. Dashing24 (talk) 14:06, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * https://tass.com/politics/1516023 "Republic" 89.14.70.34 (talk) 18:02, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete For now, it is not even known the official name of this "subject" – administrative division of Russia and names of administrative units are decribed in the constitution. So far, the constitution has not been changed, so it cannot be argued that there is such an administrative unit in Russia (eg the Russian constitution does not provide for the existence of "people's republics"). Aotearoa (talk) 16:17, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * https://tass.com/politics/1516023 accession documents signed, this is more than Jefferson (proposed Pacific state) achieved so far. 89.14.70.34 (talk) 18:02, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Something was signed. It is not known what exactly, it is not known when it comes into force (if it is an international agreement, it requires ratification). The subjects of the federation are listed in the constitution, and this has not been changed yet. As of today, there are no sources to confirm that there is an administrative unit with such a name (assuming the annexation of these areas to Russia). Aotearoa (talk) 06:31, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete like all the other ridiculous POV FORKS created to push Putinist POV in last few days.  Volunteer Marek   20:27, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong keep The (illegal) existence of such a republic in Russia is a fact, the existence of such a page does not legitimize it in any way, so deletion is absolutely unnecessarily. Ентусиастъ/Entusiast (talk) 14:31, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep all other (claimed or legal) regions under Russia have their own page, including the others annexed by Russia, no need to delete this. See Crimea, Zaporozhye, Kherson, Donetsk.Yeoutie (talk) 18:37, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
 * delete It's a POV fork (not to mention propaganda). Hobit (talk) 18:56, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
 * XDDDDDDDDDDDDD LMFAO Ентусиастъ/Entusiast (talk) 19:11, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
 * A fine response. It is both a POV fork and propaganda, so yeah, if that's all you've got... Hobit (talk) 19:23, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hm. Perhaps we should delete Propaganda in Nazi Germany. You know, it's POV and propaganda... Super   Ψ   Dro  13:07, 3 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete or Redirect to Annexation of Southern and Eastern Ukraine; as this article in reality talks almost entirely about the annexation itself. * Pppery * it has begun... 20:18, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment: There's an active RM about the name of the article: Requested move. --Anas1712 (talk) 22:52, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep As per the other deletion pages concerning the other four regions that Russia annexed that I have commented on. Within two to three days all these territories will be officially annexed and ratified by the Russian parliament. There is tons of articles on Wikipedia whose regions have two different pages concerning the same subject. BigRed606 (talk) 04:12, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete like all the other ridiculous FORKS with Putinist irredentist propaganda.Just Alabama (talk) 16:22, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per above as a POV fork of something that doesn't really exist. ansh. 666 01:36, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete as per my vote on the Donetsk deletion page. Great Mercian (talk) 14:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep for the same reasons as at Articles for deletion/Kherson Oblast (Russia). This isn't a POV fork, it's an article on a subnational governmental entity. Sure, it lacks international recognition, but that does not mean it does not exist. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 15:15, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:POVFORK. There is already an article on this region. There is little or no sourcing here that is not repeated from the Russian Government, and nowhere even remotely close to WP:SIGCOV. Cambial — foliar❧ 16:30, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep, clearly notable, the fact that it is not internationally recognised does not mean it does not exist, if it did not exist then a lot of recent geopolitical drama would be very confusing indeed, wouldn't it? Devonian Wombat (talk) 02:53, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree international recognition isn't required for an article, but this doesn't address the issues of it being a POV fork. Nor do I think any recent geopolitical drama would be more confusing if we didn't have this article--if anything it makes things more confusing. Hobit (talk) 18:06, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete; POV fork of Luhansk People's Republic. Sceptre (talk) 19:09, 7 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.