Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Luisah Teish


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep.  MBisanz  talk 00:16, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Luisah Teish

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I haven't been able to uncover any evidence of notability in terms of WP:AUTHOR or WP:BK. Where is the WP:42? Her writing has not been covered in WP:RS. There are a few hits on bookseller sites, but as we all know, that in itself will not satisfy WP:AUTHOR, WP:BK, or WP:GNG. Qworty (talk) 10:26, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete No references to establish notability. - MrOllie (talk) 15:25, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - no evidence of notability: existence is verified by the published books, but is not enough. Pam  D  15:47, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:30, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment - when the nominator says they have been unable to find any evidence of notability, I wonder where they have been looking. GScholar shows one 1988 book, Jambalaya, as cited over 100 times, and other GScholar and GBooks results suggest that many of those citations seem to be by what we would standardly regard as reliable sources. If any of her other work had received a comparable level of attention, I would regard this as a definite keep. It looks likely that this is not the case, which means that while she has some notability, it may well not be enough. But I may have missed something. PWilkinson (talk) 19:58, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep Fulfills WP:Author, WP:Prof, and most importantly, the GNG. I was able to find the following:
 * In-depth interview which mentions her book Jambalaya: Laura Casey. "There's magic between plants, food and beauty." Oakland Tribune. Alameda Newspaper Group. 2006. HighBeam Research. 17 Nov. 2012 .
 * Full review of Carnival of the Spirit: "NEW IN PAPERBACK." The Washington Post. Washingtonpost Newsweek Interactive. 1995. HighBeam Research. 17 Nov. 2012 .
 * Mentions in off our backs and the Journal of Haitian Studies
 * Significant mention in a gender studies reference book, Women and New and Africana Religions

Th e S te ve  09:26, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to integrate these sources into the article but there is little to work with. The "in-depth interview" isn't very in-depth, says very little about her. The WashPost is a brief notice, a short paragraph along with many other books not really a review. Being "mentioned" in the other sources isn't much to go on, per WP:WHYN need "significant coverage". -- Green Cardamom (talk) 19:33, 18 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep Teish is one of the best known authors in her field, and published by such major presses as Harper Collins. The article can use some work, but nthe subject is absolutely notable.Rosencomet (talk) 04:30, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Keep - Teish is one of the most notable authors in her field. She is one of the authors in the Sage Woman magazine and has taught at many of the Universities in California. Here is a link for Sonoma State University where she is noted as a lecturer for the psychology department, https://www.sonoma.edu/Psychology/spirit.htm. Here is a link to a documentary that has her interviewed and that is cited on the website, http://www.nfb.ca/film/goddess_remembered/. Here is a link to indicate her performances at the San Francisco State University's Poetry Center's Women Working in Literature conference in 1985 and 1987, http://www.sfsu.edu/~poetry/archives/t.html. Most recently she has the keynote speaker for this years Earth Medicine Alliance annual conference. Links to this information can be found on their website. http://earthmedicine.org/2012-conference-celebrating-ancestral-wisdom/ and she recently did workshops for the Earth and Spirit Council, http://www.earthandspirit.org/NaturalWay2/NWspeakers/Luisah-Teish-20111021.htm. in 2012 the anthology Shades of Faith was also listed on the Huffington Post as one of the 27 books that every Pagan should have on their shelf, Luisah Teish is published in this book, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/pagan-books-27-essential-_n_1556931.html#s1036941&title=Shades_of_Faith. This is one of the most notable artists, writers and lecturers around. Personal vendettas should be put aside. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CrystalBlanton (talk • contribs) 06:31, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Have a look at WP:42, for the notability guideline in a nutshell. Much of what you cite is primary sourcing, when it's secondary sourcing that's required to establish notability.  A few of the items on your list are secondary, but a blog announcing an appearance at a conference is not a very weighty secondary source. Qworty (talk) 06:39, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
 * He cited primary sources. All my sources are good, including the Washington Post, the Oakland Tribune, and the (discontinued) magazine off our backs.    Th e S te ve   07:19, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Secondary sources need to say something about the person (see above). There is very little information about her from the secondary sources. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 19:33, 18 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep per The Steve. Nominator's claim that no evidence of notability exists is plainly false and indicates failure to properly examine underlying issues. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 19:13, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep The notability implied by her publications is confirmed by interviews and prominent mentions in: Spiritual Interrogations: Culture, Gender, and Community in Early African American Women's Writing by Katherine Clay Bassard (Princeton University Press 1999); Dream-Singers: The African American Way with Dreams by Anthony Shafton (Wiley 2002); Embracing the Witch and the Goddess: Feminist Ritual-Makers in New Zealand by Kathryn Rountree (Routledge 2003). And in being cited as an authority in: A Mighty Baptism: Race, Gender, and the Creation of American Protestantism by Susan Juster, Lisa Macfarlane (Cornell University Press 1996); American Voudou: Journey into a Hidden World by Rod Davis (University of North Texas Press 1998); African American Folk Healing by Stephanie Y. Mitchem (New York University Press 2007). First Light (talk) 20:20, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Is there anything in those "mentions" that is "significant coverage"? Our sources are supposed to offer depth about the subject. Per WP:WHYN: "We require "significant coverage" in reliable sources so that we can actually write a whole article, rather than half a paragraph or a definition of that topic. If only a few sentences could be written and supported by sources about the subject, that subject does not qualify for a separate page, but should instead be merged into an article about a larger topic or relevant list." Presently the article is less than a paragraph in length because we have no sources that say any more. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 20:48, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that we need significant coverage enough to demonstrate notability, not "so that we can actually write a whole article, rather than half a paragraph or a definition of that topic." A stub is fine, if she is shown to be a recognized authority in reliable sources. But here are some passages that might add some biographical info to the article itself:


 * "Also, a contemporary conjure woman, Luisah Teish, who blends hoodoo with New Age beliefs, writes that perfumed water under the bed, when combined with certain other measures, will “keep dreams clear.” Finally, water can be used to prevent the dream (or dreamlike experience) of being ridden by a witch—the subject of the next chapter. The water either catches the hag, or simply distracts it." from Dream-Singers: The African American Way with Dreams by Anthony Shafton (Wiley 2002). She is also quoted in a few other passages in that book, as a respected authority in the field.
 * "In 1992 Luisah Teish, who is well known internationally in Goddess circles as a writer and ritual-maker, visited New Zealand. Teish is of Yoruba (West African) ancestry, although she was born and raised in New Orleans. She was the guest facilitator at residential weekend workshops in Auckland and Hamilton dedicated to exploring sensuality and creativity in ritual contexts. Her book Jambalaya: The Natural Woman’s Book of Personal Charms and Practical Rituals (1985) is well known among feminist witches in New Zealand." That's from Embracing the Witch and the Goddess: Feminist Ritual-Makers in New Zealand by Kathryn Rountree (Routledge 2003).
 * In Culture, Curers, and Contagion: Readings for Medical Social Science she has a short article that is part of the book, by Norman Klein, ed., Culture, Curers, and Contagion: Readings for Medical Social Science (Novato, CA: Chandler and Sharp, 1979).
 * "Luisah Teish, a priestess in Lucumí..." from African American Folk Healing by Stephanie Y. Mitchem (New York University Press 2007), where she is quoted as an authority.
 * "Luisah Teish, a Yoruban priestess who began teaching in 1977, and author of Jambalaya ( 1985), was one of the women who came on...." from Greta S. Gaard, Ecological Politics: Ecofeminists and the Greens (Philadelphia: Temple University Press, 1998), where Teish is described as an authority.
 * "Another well-known practitioner is Luisah Teish, author of Jambalaya...." also demonstrating authority in the field (referring to "New Orleans practitioners of voodoo"). from Anthony B. Pinn, Varieties of African American Religious Experience (Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1998).
 * She is also cited as an authority in another dozen or so academic book house writings. It's obvious that she is a recognized authority. How much of a biographical wikipedia article can be written is another subject, but not one for AfD. I wish I had more time to research and add to the article, but I hope that I've provided some leads for those who are interested in improving the article. First Light (talk) 21:28, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's another bit of bio info I missed: "On her part, the African American performer, writer and ritualist Luisah Teish believes that the contact with one's ancestress provided by Vodou encourages feminist spirituality in that women who aspire to become mambos, or priestesses, cement the matrilinear tradition by constructing a communal image of the feminine:" (followed by quote from Teish). Emanuela Maltese, ""What Is the Truth?": Ezili, or the Power of Feminist Love," Journal of Haitian Studies 16, no. 1 (2010), http://www.questia.com/read/1P3-2078983621. First Light (talk) 21:45, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

First Light, something can be notable but not qualify for a standalone article if there is not enough sources of "significant coverage". In this case we are seeing many small 'mentions' of her, suggesting notability, but nothing really of significant coverage. So according to WP:WHYN it would be redirected somewhere. However, I think you found some decent sources and I'll try to wring water from stone so we can get at least a paragraph about her by combining all these sources. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 01:40, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Incorrect. If something is notable, it qualifies for a standalone article. Period.  What you are talking about is not enough source material to make more than a stub.  There are several solutions, including 1. leave the stub (stubs aren't bad), and 2. merge it somewhere, but deletion is not one of them.  That is not the case for this particular article, however.  There is more than enough secondary sourcing to make a respectable biography.  Never mind.  I see you've wrung some water from the stone ;)  Cheers.   Th e S te ve   02:13, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Green Cardamom, I agree with you — there is much about the subject that might be borderline notability, with few books or articles entirely about her. But she is quoted, mentioned, and cited as an authority by so many academic writers that there is some notability, and is worth of a Wikipedia article, in my opinion. I sincerely appreciate what you're saying, along with your efforts to improve the article, even though you don't completely agree with the 'keep's. First Light (talk) 02:53, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Here is a good Google Book Preview source for biographical material: White Fire: A Portrait of Women Spiritual Leaders in America, which has a chapter on her. It might not be a high quality Reliable Source showing notability, but for good bio info it suffices. First Light (talk) 05:20, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Keep. The article is much too short and needs to be expanded, but this person is quite notable and certainly should be mentioned in Wikipedia. Folklore1 (talk) 00:25, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.