Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Luke Milanzi


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 23:31, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Luke Milanzi

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fails WP:ATH - Malawi league isn't as far as I can find out fully professional - he may also fail WP:GNG - can't find a lot of sources by a look around. Steve-Ho (talk) 21:21, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Steve-Ho (talk) 21:25, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This article has been nominated for rescue. Silver  seren C 21:28, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment I have tagged this article for rescue. Silver  seren C 21:28, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep He plays for the top football league in Malawi and has played internationally, placing him firmly within the bounds of #1 on WP:ATHLETE. Silver  seren C 21:28, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment' - I would like to see some evidence that the Malawian league is fully professional. Also youth international caps don't in their own right confer notability Steve-Ho (talk) 21:33, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * If it is the top league in Malawi, then it is fully professional. What other evidence do you need? Silver  seren C 21:41, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Not all top leagues are fully professional - see WikiProject_Football/Fully_professional_leagues Steve-Ho (talk) 21:52, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * From what I can tell of the discussion, "Fully professional" means making a livable wage off of playing the sport. Is there any way to determine this for the Malawi league? Silver  seren C 22:02, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep Seems notable to me; its just a low-quality article for now, but doesn't necessarily mean it can't improve.  Raa  G   gio   (talk)  21:31, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG. Recreat if/when he plays in a fully-pro league. GiantSnowman 23:31, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Is the Malawi Premier Division not a fully pro league and can you show me where this is said? Silver  seren C 00:56, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete. The top flight of Malawi football is not fully professional. The top flight is the Malawi Premier Division, also known as the Super League. That league is only semi-professional: see the second paragraph under "introduction" here: . Thus the subject fails the community set standard of WP:ATH. --Mkativerata (talk) 07:25, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding that - I guess we will need to update the list of non-fully professional leagues now to include Malawi Steve-Ho (talk) 08:43, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Done: . --Mkativerata (talk) 08:53, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 17:10, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment. This is yet another case where a robotic insistence on the letter of WP:ATHLETE gets in the way of common sense. Whether the top league in Malawi is fully professional or not, its record seasonal goal-scorer is more notable by any conceivable rational standard than some journeyman who has turned out for a match or two for Torquay United, but only the latter gets a free pass for notability. If a reliable source can be found to confirm even half of what is in the article then it should be kept. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:09, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You are free to find the sources to make sure it meets WP:N - I just nominated it because it didn't appear to meet WP:ATH.... Steve-Ho (talk) 19:38, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You do have a point. I mean, he is the main scorer for the entire team. Silver  seren C 20:03, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No, not just for the entire team, but for the entire top league of a country. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:36, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment I have added some sources. Silver  seren C 20:28, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Those sources don't exactly establish notability do they? Both sources are about individual matches. One mentions that he scored a goal, the other mentions that he had a shot saved. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:30, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete - the information in the article other than his exploits with the under-17 national team (which I don't think is enough to establish notability) are unverifiable. The Nation's online website indicates that Milanzi plays for Escom United, not the "Eagle Strikers" indicated in the article. If he had really had led the league in goal-scoring, The Nation and other sites dedicated to sports in Malawi would surely have noted it. My guess is that the local football information is wrong or a hoax. Jogurney (talk) 21:27, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * On further inspection, Eagle Strikers have scored 33 goals in the 2009–10 season, so are we to believe Milanzi scored 30 of them (without a source) especially when a reliable source has him with Escom United? The editor, Milanese-Brisbane, who entered that information has a history of other hoaxes if you check his contribution history. Jogurney (talk) 21:32, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * RSSSF contradicts the article's assertion about Milanzi's 17 goals scored in 2008 as well. I'm sure we have a hoax on our hands here. Jogurney (talk) 21:41, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * (after edit conflict) I'm willing to accept that the information may be innacurate, which is why I didn't give a "keep" opinion above and included an "if" in my comment, but FIFA says that he was playing for Eagle Strikers in 2009. My main point is that we shouldn't get hung up on the professionalism of the league when deciding whether an individual player is a suitable subject for an encyclopedia article. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:43, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that's reasonable. If Milanzi had actually set the goal-scoring record at such a young age, it's very likely he would have coverage sufficient to pass the GNG. As it is, we have a hoaxster editor that added the information and it cannot be verified (as seems a likely hoax). Jogurney (talk) 21:48, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete: fails ATHLETE, youth caps do not imply notability. Appears to be a hoax anyway, it's hard to believe that a 15-year-old could be a record holder for the most goals. Most of the claims in the article are contradicted in reliable sources. Big  Dom  15:43, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete unless a cast-iron reliable source can be found to prove that a 15 year old set a goalscoring record, which frankly I don't believe for a second -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:04, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.