Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MES Pattambi


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 01:14, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

MES Pattambi

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Delete - Non notable foreign (no matter where it is from, I would have nominated it for deletion) school. The only references don't even qualify as reliable secondary sources(like this one). The only reference that could qualify as a reliable source barely mentions the school and is just "Trivial or incidental coverage", which does not meet WP:SCHOOL. Furthermore, the article makes no real claim to of notability. Also, not that it matters, but the article has already been deleted before(under multiple name variations) for copyright violation and notability issues.  Wacko Jack O   08:46, 7 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Merge to the parent organisation Muslim Educational Society; not covered non-trivially by any independent, reliable sources. But a school's being "foreign" has precisely zero bearing on notability. cab (talk) 10:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So, you are saying we keep it, even though it is not notable, and is not mentioned(non trivially) by any independant, reliable sources? My poor wording in nominating the article, shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not the school actually meets notability guidelines Wacko Jack O   11:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I did not state that we should keep it, I stated that we should merge it to the parent organisation, as is typical practise for non-notable subsidiaries and especially for schools. Existence of the school and its association with the Muslim Educational Scoiety is quite easily verifiable if you search as requested at WP:BEFORE; results found in the first page of Google results cab (talk) 12:47, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Erm, one links to the school website which is not even a secondary source; the other is a listing for a school fete. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 12:51, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * For the THIRD TIME, I am arguing that the article should be merged. Redirects are not articles; they are not and have never been required to meet WP:N. cab (talk) 00:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I added a sourced "Schools" section in the parent article; see Muslim Educational Society. If we merge this article, a shortened description can go into the "Notes" column there. cab (talk) 01:57, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep the nom describing this as a "foreign school" is evidence of massive systemic bias. To Wikipedia nothing is foreign. I suggest we keep the info to avoid such bias. The internet is mostly American; the World mostly isn't.-- Patton t / c 11:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * So, you are saying we keep the article to make a point(no matter what the notability)? Wacko Jack O   11:43, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No I say the notability threshold is lower for articles like this because of systemic bias.-- Patton t / c 14:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions.  cab (talk) 10:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions.  cab (talk) 10:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I would have nominated the same article for deletion if it was located in the U.S. or the U.K. I guess I shouldn't have used the word foregin, but I was trying to be specific. Either way, are should every single  school be covered on Wikipedia? What is the claim of notability for this school? Wacko  Jack O   11:39, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment It needs to be either deleted as non-notable,or references from verifiable sources given, as per the guideline for schools or merged with Muslim Educational Society; however that article doesn't give references either and is in frankly terrible shape and another prime candidate for an AfD. I'll hold back nominating that til we get through with this AfD. Wacko worded his nomination for AfD badly but all should assume good faith in the nomination of a poorly sourced article. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 12:03, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - this is a high school with a significant community profile. I notice that sources are available but Indian schools have a poor presence on the Internet so, to avoid systemic bias, sufficient time should be given for local sources to be researched. Nominating such pages less than a day after creation is not helpful; we should be looking to develop the article not deleting it. TerriersFan (talk) 13:12, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * This article has actually deleted multiple times before(with different variations of the name). It was started by the same user each time. However, there is still no claim of anything notable, and no source that actually mentions the school as being notable in any way. Wacko Jack O   13:56, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The various deletions were all made in the last few days. The page has had wholly insufficient time for local sources to be found. Experience shows that high schools are invariably notable if sufficient effort is put in to research them. TerriersFan (talk) 14:01, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: The previous deletion was due to copyvio, not due to notability issues as claimed in the nomination. Salih  ( talk ) 14:51, 7 April 2009 (UTC
 * There has been more than one previous deletion, the person who created the article, created it under different name variations. Wacko Jack O   14:54, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep per TerriersFan. Additionally, I have added a source to the article. Salih  ( talk ) 13:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Per Wikipedia school criteria: "Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability.". For this article to meet notability standards, it must be covered in depth by reliable, secondary sources, and the coverage must not be trivial. Wacko Jack <strong style="color:#D2B48C;">O   14:00, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The latest "source" is a directory entry and not an adequate source. As far as I can tell its the equivalent of using the Yellow Pages as a source. All we need are reliable, secondary, non-trivial sources... Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 14:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That source is a 488 page book published by Institute of Objective Studies (New Delhi). You can't compare it with Yellow Pages. Salih  ( talk ) 14:57, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, you can compare it to the Yellow pages. The name of the book you are refering to is " Directory of Muslim educational institutions in India." There are also still no sources that aren't "Trivial or incidental coverage"(at best).<em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS Italic;"> Wacko  Jack <strong style="color:#D2B48C;">O   14:59, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you really call things like this a reference supporting notability?<em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS Italic;"> Wacko Jack <strong style="color:#D2B48C;">O   15:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep All high schools with a real existence are notable for   Wikipedia purposes. Obviously the article should be further expanded, andthis generally does take place.  DGG (talk) 20:39, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Looking through SCHOOL, I don't see where it says any high school is necessary. From what I see, it has to have some notable coverage in a secondary source.<em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS Italic;"> Wacko Jack <strong style="color:#D2B48C;">O   01:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "necessary" is not the standard for keeping. To remove it, you need to show why it is necessary to remove it. DGG (talk) 17:08, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, how can the article be expanded, if the school is not covered in in depth by secondary sources? The only way to expand it would be from original research, etc.<em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS Italic;"> Wacko Jack <strong style="color:#D2B48C;">O   01:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * delete This is kind of hard one but I dont think references for this are enough to make school notable. References in this case seem to be internet listing, vanity, or barely mentioning school. If I saw some good references I would think different but I am sorry I dont. This is just my opinion.JimmySmitts (talk) 09:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - it's got room for improvement, but it's clearly notable. Just needs some slightly better sourcing. ╟─ Treasury Tag ► contribs ─╢ 13:49, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The whole point is, there is no better sourcing. The only references are either not valid secondary sources(this), or barely mention the school(like this).<em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS Italic;"> Wacko Jack <strong style="color:#D2B48C;">O   13:54, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I actually read the article and this page before commenting. I also evaluated the sources. My interpretation of the notability policy is that the subject of the article is notable, and I believe that it is plausible that the assertion of that notability can be increased. It seems that numerous other users agree with me, which indicates that I'm not fundamentally misunderstanding the whole issue. I'm particulary impressed with TerrierFan's comments, which I think hit the nail on the head perfectly. So I stand by my argument to keep. ╟─ Treasury Tag ► contribs ─╢ 14:17, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's just very hard to believe that people think that the sources for this article meet WP:SCHOOL.<em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS Italic;"> Wacko Jack <strong style="color:#D2B48C;">O   14:34, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but they clearly do, and haranguing everybody who disagrees with you, and insulting their intellects (even if they're a very clear majority) defies the point of consensus; I therefore advise that you let this AfD run its course without commenting again unless you have anything new to say - so far, you've just repeated the same links and statements about four times each. ╟─ Treasury Tag ► contribs ─╢ 14:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep : "All high schools can be assumed to be notable." per Notability (high schools). C 21 K <em style="font family:Verdana; color:Black">talk  09:41, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * From Notability (high schools) : "This essay contains the advice or opinions of one or more Wikipedia contributors. Essays may represent widespread norms or minority viewpoints. Heed them or not at your own discretion." <em style="font-family:Trebuchet MS Italic;"> Wacko Jack <strong style="color:#D2B48C;">O   10:06, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.