Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Machine Poets

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Woohookitty 07:35, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Machine Poets
non-notable band that fails to meet criteria in WP:MUSIC. Tobycat 7 July 2005 00:24 (UTC)
 * I realise I may not be able to vote on this VfD, seeing as I wrote the article, but I wanted to point out that I have nothing to do with this band (so it's not 'vanity'), and that the three members are all prominant figures in Australia's independent music scene, each with histories datin g back to the late 1970s. I intend to expand on the article, hence its 'stub' tag. Cnwb 7 July 2005 00:29 (UTC)
 * You most certainly can vote. Seeing as you're not a brand new user, nor one with a tiny edit count, your vote would probably be counted by the closing admin. -Splash 7 July 2005 00:45 (UTC)


 * Delete non-notable. Googling "Machine Poets" -poetry -poet (owing to the name's derivation) gives 21 hits, "Machine Poets" "Garry Gray" gives only 1 hit, as does "Machine Poets" "Andrew Picouleau" and "Machine Poets" "Ash Wednesday" gives 2. There is also no allmusic.com presence. Thus fails WP:MUSIC. Give them a few years to fill in the blanks and then give them an article. -Splash 7 July 2005 00:45 (UTC)
 * Delete. No allmusic.com entry for this band or any of its members. I'm willing to reconsider my vote should the article be sufficently expanded and evidence of notability is presented. Gamaliel 7 July 2005 00:49 (UTC)
 * Delete as per Splash. Jaxl 7 July 2005 00:50 (UTC)
 * Delete. Okay, this may seem weird, but I'm voting to delete my own article. I agree that the band are not yet notable, and this was in the back of my mind when I wrote it.Cnwb 7 July 2005 00:53 (UTC)
 * Keep, apparently a notable project by notable "prominent figures in Australia's independent music scene." Kappa 7 July 2005 01:06 (UTC)
 * Is it? Are they? Can you show us evidence of this? I'm willing to vote keep if someone can, but it seems like you're pulling this reasoning out of thin air. Gamaliel 7 July 2005 01:12 (UTC)
 * Why are you asking me this? I didn't write the article. Kappa 7 July 2005 01:14 (UTC)
 * I'm asking you because your comments assert that these people are notable, so I want to know how you came to that conclusion. Gamaliel 7 July 2005 01:15 (UTC)
 * Cnwb seems like a honest person. Kappa 7 July 2005 01:19 (UTC)
 * Some of us think that an encyclopedia should be based on facts and evidence, not good feelings and wishful thinking. Note that even Cnwb (who no doubt is an honest person) is voting delete.  Gamaliel 7 July 2005 01:25 (UTC)
 * It's very common to vote based on other people's assertions, if you don't believe the assertions you should challenge the people who made them. Cnwb is voting delete because s/he doesn't realize that being a project by 3 notable people makes it notable. Even if only Ash Wednesday is notable, this page should be merged with his article rather than deleted. Kappa 7 July 2005 01:33 (UTC)
 * Ok, you made the assertion that the band was notable: prove it. You only use the word "apparently" in your vote, and that just isn't good enough. -Splash 7 July 2005 01:40 (UTC)
 * What type of editing standard is that Kappa? Articles should be independently verifiable not just taken on some other editor's words. JamesBurns 7 July 2005 07:25 (UTC)
 * Very quick googling shows that the other two have both been in projects which have released two albums: Garry Gray  and Andrew Picouleau . Kappa 7 July 2005 07:57 (UTC)
 * So, I may be deluded, but at least I'm honest! Regarding notability; Ash Wednesday is perhaps the most notable, having played in The Models and Einsturzende Neubauten. But upon reflection, I don't think this outfit deserves an article, yet. Cnwb 7 July 2005 01:36 (UTC)
 * Please discuss it in Ash Wednesday's article then. Kappa 7 July 2005 01:43 (UTC)
 * Kappa, did my comment and research mean utterly nothing to you? -Splash 7 July 2005 01:34 (UTC)
 * If three notable musicians get together to form a group, it should be covered, regardless of google results or whatever, because anyone who is interested in any of the three would be interested in the group. Kappa 7 July 2005 01:43 (UTC)
 * Are all three of them notable? Gamaliel 7 July 2005 01:46 (UTC)
 * Well "the three members are all prominant figures in Australia's independent music scene, each with histories datin g back to the late 1970s". Kappa 7 July 2005 01:48 (UTC)
 * Self-evidently not. When Googled together with their band name, they go down in flames. To Google without the bandname is meaningless (lots of people could have any name you like). Merely quoting from an article extension to the article (which didn't provide any reference, proof, justification etc) doesn't prove the slightest thing: you can't say "this article is notable because this same article says here that it's notable". And I have a history going back to the 1970's!-Splash 7 July 2005 01:53 (UTC)
 * Ok, that was a bad way to say what I meant. I meant that VfD is for establishing notability not merely asserting it (which is all you've done). By quoting back the very content that needs to be established, your argument is circular and internal. External verification of the notability of all 3 artists does not consist of a mere claim that they are notable &mdash; surely you agree that other evidence is needed. I personally didn't find any, and I looked. You've not looked (or haven't showed us where) but still seem to have found some! -Splash 7 July 2005 02:17 (UTC)
 * Well my vote depends on Cnwb's word, which I believe is more reliable than a google test by someone who doesn't know any of the musicians' history. If Cnwb won't defend the notability of the other two, my keep vote is null, but Ash Wednesday has an article which shows notability so the material should be at least merged. Kappa 7 July 2005 02:22 (UTC)
 * Garry Gray played with the Sacred Cowboys, and in The Reals an early outfit of Ollie Olsen. Andrew Picouleau, besides playing with a multitude of small independent bands, has played in Dave Graney & the Coral Snakes. I think that in Australian independent music, they're on the fringe of notability. I still maintain that Machine Poets is not notable enough for Wikipedia. Cnwb 7 July 2005 03:08 (UTC)


 * Delete. Googling just "machine poets" only found a couple relevant links of the ones I checked, "Andrew Picouleau" only gets 29 displayed hits, mostly for a business person that may or may not be the musician, and "Garry Gray" doesn't get many relevant hits. But mostly, there isn't evidence of an album or tour, both of which are part of WP:MUSIC. Niteowlneils 7 July 2005 02:49 (UTC)


 * Delete: Not signed, not prominent, not influential. At this point, nothing points to notability of such a nature as to require an encyclopedia article, and such statements as "a group, it should be covered, regardless" sound like a former user who ended up founding his own wiki that keeps everything.  He did, because that's now how this project works. Geogre 7 July 2005 03:12 (UTC)
 * "As a group of three notable musicians" is not the same as "as a group". Why shouldn't this group be covered inside the Ash Wednesday... is his biography supposed to end when he stops generating google hits? Kappa 7 July 2005 07:57 (UTC)


 * Delete, fails WP:MUSIC. Dcarrano July 7, 2005 04:25 (UTC)
 * With great reluctance, I am going to vote delete. The Ash Wednesday article suggests they were formed since 1999. The low Google count is therefore significant. As far as I can tell, they have not released any records and, if they have, it hasn't achieved much success. While the musicians concerned have played in notable bands, there is no indication that this band is particularly notable at this stage.Capitalistroadster 7 July 2005 04:48 (UTC)
 * Delete non notable. Fails WP:MUSIC guidelines. JamesBurns 7 July 2005 07:27 (UTC)
 * Delete, NN. Radiant_ &gt;|&lt; July 7, 2005 09:55 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete per Cnwb, original author voted delete. Am I mis-reading speedy rules, or is this end of discussion? -Harmil 7 July 2005 14:08 (UTC)
 * Keep The band of a well-known musician. T h e St ev e  06:04, July 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.