Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maebe A. Girl


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. No prejudice to recreation in the future if more sources arise or she is elected to higher office.. Yunshui 雲 水 08:19, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Maebe A. Girl

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Semi-advertorial WP:BLP of a person notable only for serving on a neighborhood council and being an as yet non-winning candidate in a future political party primary. Neither of these are notability claims that pass WP:NPOL, but the sourcing is not making a strong case that she's much more special than everybody else who's done the same things without getting into Wikipedia for it. The seemingly strongest source here, The New York Times, doesn't even mention the subject at all, but is here merely to tangentially verify a stray fact about the incumbent congressman she's primarying; four of the other eight are primary sources which are not support for notability at all (YouTube videos, the subject's own bylined writing, the subject's own campaign website, etc.), and the stuff that is media coverage about Maebe A. Girl is just routine campaign coverage in LA. And no, "first drag queen elected to public office in her state" is not a notable historic first in a state that's already had enough LGBTQ officeholders to fill a Pride parade: "first member of an underrepresented occupation to do a not otherwise notable thing" is not an "inherent" notability freebie that entitles a person to a Wikipedia article in the absence of much more substance and sourcing than this. Bearcat (talk) 04:00, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Pass The name and the consequent Wikipedian name format in the article make for hilarious reading. One of the most humorous articles we have. Other than that, I'll leave the serious matter of deletion up to people with more political (s)expertise than I enjoy myself. Best wishes to one and all, --SergeWoodzing (talk) 09:15, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Bearcat (talk) 04:00, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. Bearcat (talk) 04:00, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Bearcat (talk) 04:00, 12 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Lean Keep Advocate and Out sources nudges her over GNG. Rab V (talk) 09:42, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
 * No, they really don't. Those are sources that routinely cover almost any queer person in the United States who accomplishes anything at all — so while they would be perfectly fine for use if Maebe A. Girl had a much stronger notability claim than she does, they aren't enough coverage all by themselves to magically make a neighborhood councillor so much more nationally notable than most other neighborhood councillors — at best they just make her a WP:BLP1E, as there's no evidence of ongoing nationalized coverage being shown at all besides the 1E novelty factor of a drag queen winning an election to a non-notable office. GNG does take into account the context of what a person is getting coverage for, and serving on a neighborhood council is not an "inherently" noteworthy context for which just two sources would be enough. Bearcat (talk) 18:15, 12 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment I have found a few other sources, though they are mainly local. "Would you like a side of camp with that? Echo Park restaurant now serving dinner and a drag show", The Eastsider, Feb 9, 2017, has her birth name, that she was on the regular staff of The Park Restaurant, and did a monthly dinnertime drag show there called Dress Hall, with another drag queen. They had been performing together in drag for a bit over 2 years, and Girl also performed at Exposure Drag, a weekly show at the Offbeat Bar in Highland Park. "The First Drag Queen Elected to Local Office Is Making a Run for Congress" on Route Fifty, August 21, 2019 , says she started performing in drag five years ago, and her work became more political after the 2016 election; she describes herself as transgender and genderfluid, is trying to establish a drag queen story hour and LGBTQ lecture series at the local library and sits on the council homelessness committee. "Pride in Our People: Profiles in Local LGBTQ Activism" in LA Weekly, May 30, 2019 , also gives her birth name, and says she is forming a council committee focused on LGBTQ-related issues. "The most amazing brunches in LA hotels, from Bloody Mary menus to pool parties" in the UK Telegraph,  28 June 2019  says she hosts a Wigs & Waffles Drag Brunch on Saturdays at The Standard, Downtown. The Los Angeles Magazine source which is already in the article has more info too: she volunteered in Chicago as an overnight supervisor at the Lincoln Park community shelter. Searching on the birth name and Chicago also finds some passing, promotional or local Chicago coverage, of tours they ran (of pizza  and of architecture ), work as a hotel concierge , and running for mayor there in 2010.


 * I don't think that any of the sources are enough to meet WP:GNG yet, though. The Advocate article says "In a statement sent to The Advocate, she highlighted the ....", so that's pretty well based on a press release. The Out article says "Los Angeles-based drag performer Maebe A. Girl ... has been elected to the Silver Lake Neighborhood Council, The Advocate reports." So it's based on The Advocate, which is based on a press release. The Los Angeles Magazine article is better, The Eastsider is good, and the Q Voice News looks OK - but all are local. Route Fifty is national, "a digital news publication from Atlantic Media’s Government Executive Media Group" which "covers a variety of topics under the larger state, county and municipal government umbrella", and it was written by the assistant editor. But that's the only national coverage I'm aware of, and it's not a type of media I'm used to, so I'm not sure how to assess it. I think this may be WP:TOOSOON, but will consider it more before I !vote. RebeccaGreen (talk) 21:00, 12 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete being a member of a neighborhood council is a default show of non-notability, and they are not notable as a performer either.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:51, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete per Bearcat. No significant coverage. Way WP:TOOSOON. -Crossroads- (talk) 22:14, 16 September 2019 (UTC)


 * KEEP This drag queen is notable for getting elected to city council. There is potential for this person to move up the ranks of importance.  She is definitely someone to keep an eye on...has a long career ahead of her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RachelWex (talk • contribs)
 * For one thing, she was not elected to a city council; she was elected to a neighborhood council, which is a level of office below the city council and not a level of office that passes WP:NPOL. For another, we don't keep articles about people based on assumptions about their potential to move up the ranks of importance in the future; we keep or delete articles based on what's already true today. If she does move up the ranks to hold a notable NPOL-passing office in the future, then that will be the appropriate time to start an article about her — but we don't keep articles about neighborhood councillors just because there's a possibility that they might win election to a more notable office in the future, because they also might not. If they do win election to a more notable office in the future, then great, once that's happened they get to have an article — but notability is based on what's already true today, not predictions about what might become true a year or five years or ten years from now. Bearcat (talk) 15:29, 17 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete per Bearcat. WP:TOOSOON. The Advocate and LA Magazine articles serve as a good base to meet WP:GNG, but are not enough to show notability for a neighborhood council member. --Enos733 (talk) 04:12, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Merge to 2020 United States House of Representatives elections in California. If you want to talk about their possible primary challenge to Schiff, it can be done there. If they end up winning the primary, we can re-assess, but we are not giving WP:UNDUE weight to unelected political candidates. Bkissin (talk) 17:56, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per Rab V. Saying that national publications don't confer notability is silly.  Would you also disqualify Sports Illustrated because they "routinely cover almost any sports person in the United States who accomplishes anything at all"?  Gamaliel  ( talk ) 00:45, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * If Sports Illustrated were covering somebody in the context of winning the U.S. Open or being on a Stanley Cup championship team, then of course that coverage would speak to notability. But if it were covering somebody in the context of being on a little league team in Peoria IL, it would not. It's a question of the context of what the person is being covered for, and being elected to a neighborhood council is not a notable context. Bearcat (talk) 18:57, 18 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.